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Do you need to buy more than one of the same pack?


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#1 Joeyman

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:13 AM

My copy of all of this is showing up today.  I've been reading all these posts and it makes me wonder if you need more than one of each to get a decent squad put together.  Anybody?



#2 Budgernaut

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:43 AM

 First off, I think this thread would be better in General than in Battle Reports. But that's not too big an issue.

To answer your question, I once thought that lots of ships were necessary. This idea stems from the 100 pt limit in tournaments. The thing is, if you're not playing in tournaments, there really is no need to get 100 pts. of ships. It sounds to me (and I don't know this for sure since mine is also scheduled to arrive today) that many people enjoy games with fewer than 100 pts. I don't think there is anything wrong with starting small and building up later if you really want.

The only other thing that would make you want more ships is if you desperately wanted to combine two unique Y-wing or TIE Advanced pilots in the same game or wanted to use two copies of an elite pilot skill that only comes in 1x in a pack. Then you would need multiple ships. You definitely get more squad-building options with duplicate ships, but I can't say that anyone needs to buy duplicates.


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#3 DavicusPrime

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:14 AM

Depends on how big a game you like to play…  to get to 100pts for rebels, you can do it with any three ships or up to 4.  So if you buy one starter and one each of the rebel upgrades, you're set all the way up to 100pts.

If you're running Imperials, you're going to need to pick up more.  I'm getting 2 Starters and one each of the TIE and TIE Advanced expansions.  that can take me up to 100pts.  But I'm going to need a second TIE Expansion if I want to take an all TIE list at 100pts.  TIEs are just too cheap points wise to go with a small list at 100pts.

Now if you just like a certain type of fighter in your list, say dual Y-wings or dual TIE advanced, then you'll want to double up.  And if you want to go with an all TIE or X-Wing list at the 100pt level, you'll need to double up on the Starters and expansions.

My first Order is 2 Starters and one each of all the expansions so I have all the options available to me for under 100pt games and I can go upto 100pts with either faction for bigger games.  Depending on what I like after giving the game a try, I expect that I'll be buying 1 more of each upgrade.  But then I may just wait for the next wave.  By the end of my 2nd wave purchases I expect to have enough to put 4 100pt lists on the table (2 reb and 2 Imp) at the same time.  That'll let me try all kinds of options and be able to get more people playing at a time (I'm effectively collecting for myself and my kids).

-DavicusPrime



#4 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:16 PM

 Having played a bunch of games now, playing games at 50, 60, 75, and 100 points, it is not necessary to have tons of ships for Empire. Everyone seems to be pushing the idea of using Vader and 5 cheap Ties as the only way to play for Empire and nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, Empire benefits more from high skill and character pilots than the rebels do. Being able to move after your opponent when you have barrel roll is HUGE, then shooting first is HUGE, and having superior agility makes up for the lower offensive stat. Having a high agility stat combined with the evade action is incredible for those times when your opponent may have outguessed you and got in behind you or in your side flanks. 

Everyone already knows that Vader is redonkulous but people seem to think only cheap basic ties should be taken after that… not true. Advanced Ties are amazing… do they cost more than normal ties, yes, much more, they are in line with x wings… but they are more survivable than x wings since they have the same shields and hull points as x wings but with a higher agility stat and better maneouvrability. People think you need to outnumber rebels to win… not true… maybe this idea came from the starter set where there is one x wing and 2 ties, but in many of our games, there has been equal nuimbers of ships and games that have gone either way… In fact, in our games, Empire have had the edge, winning slightly more games than Rebels and I don't think there has been more than one game where the ship numbers were not even. In games against my brother (who loves Empire) he never ever takes the basic low point Academy Pilot Tie… he calls them "high school pilot" and says, "I don't play with high school pilots"… and he just beat me tonight in a super close game where it came down to Vader and Wedge in a game where we started with 3 ships each and all three of his pilots were named, I think he used Dark Curse, Mauler Mithel and Vader to my Wedge and 2 rookie x wings.I had my chance using some bold koiagan turns to get behind Vader and get three full turns of free shots on the Dark Lord but I was stressed a lot of the time in order to outfly him, using Koigans and barrel rolls to stay in my firing arc and out of his… so I never got to focus and conveniently forgot to use Wedge's skill that lowers the agility of the enemy by 1 (which could possibly have made the difference to be honest) and after failing to put the nail in Vader, Vader threw one big dice roll and since I was double stressed, could not turn any focus into evades and was shot down for the loss.

All that I bought last week when it came out was the core set, plus 2 x wing boosters and y wing (which is an easy 100pts+) and for Empire I only bought 2 advanced Ties to go with the 2 regulars in the core and have made 100 pt lists with those 4 ships and have played against 100 pt lists against those ships. You do not need to outnumber rebels. You should be able to outfly them… in order for the rebel to outfly you he needs to take upgrades and make crazy bold and stressful moves, after which he will have a hard time breaching your defense as you have 3-4 defense dice and he will not have focus.

Trust me, I have played both sides and they both have their merits as does every ship and pilot combo… Y wings may have a ton of shield and hull points but they need them all since they are freakin' boats and couldn't outfly a garbage scow, etc…. Everything has its pros and cons… and x wings (even ones with R2D2) are not immune to a fiery death (especially if Vader is on the table- he is soo good… 2 actions, plus upgrades in an agile ship with agility 3 and 2 shield points is just incredible).

As I said, I only have 4 ships for each faction and can do 100 pts for each and feel good about it. So a starter and a few blisters could easily have you on your way. I plan to pick up a Tie booster just because I don't have it and want more flexibility and to try out backstabber and howlrunner… that's the last blister I need to have all the pilots. Unfortunately my LGS sold out of everything in the first hour that he put them on the shelf (luckily he knew enough to set aside a starter for me and I went into the store when it opened) and then I had to go 30 minutes away to grab the other advanced tie and x wing blisters as I could only get one of each and the Y wing at my LGS. I could head downtown on Sunday to grab the other Tie but will just wait until my LGS restocks them and save the trip…

… But ya.. it was a small investment and I love 100 pt games and will love 200 pt games in the future but I had tons of fun tonight playing my brother at 75 so feel free to start small.



#5 Parakitor

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:17 AM

Strombole said:

 and since I was double stressed, could not turn any focus into evades and was shot down for the loss.

I promise, I'm not trying to nit-pick. Just trying to make sure I understand the rules. On page 17 it says that a stressed pilot cannot perform any red maneuvers. How did your pilot end up double stressed? It sounds intense.


"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#6 DavicusPrime

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:46 AM

Parakitor said:

Strombole said:

 

 and since I was double stressed, could not turn any focus into evades and was shot down for the loss.

 

 

I promise, I'm not trying to nit-pick. Just trying to make sure I understand the rules. On page 17 it says that a stressed pilot cannot perform any red maneuvers. How did your pilot end up double stressed? It sounds intense.

You can pick up a second Stress token from a crittical hit effect.

-DavicusPrime



#7 Parakitor

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:56 AM

DavicusPrime said:

Parakitor said:

 

Strombole said:

 

 and since I was double stressed, could not turn any focus into evades and was shot down for the loss.

 

 

I promise, I'm not trying to nit-pick. Just trying to make sure I understand the rules. On page 17 it says that a stressed pilot cannot perform any red maneuvers. How did your pilot end up double stressed? It sounds intense.

 

 

You can pick up a second Stress token from a crittical hit effect.

-DavicusPrime

Yikes. Tough luck.


"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#8 DavicusPrime

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:19 AM

Strombole said:

 

 Having played a bunch of games now, playing games at 50, 60, 75, and 100 points, it is not necessary to have tons of ships for Empire. Everyone seems to be pushing the idea of using Vader and 5 cheap Ties as the only way to play for Empire and nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, Empire benefits more from high skill and character pilots than the rebels do. Being able to move after your opponent when you have barrel roll is HUGE, then shooting first is HUGE, and having superior agility makes up for the lower offensive stat. Having a high agility stat combined with the evade action is incredible for those times when your opponent may have outguessed you and got in behind you or in your side flanks. 

As I said, I only have 4 ships for each faction and can do 100 pts for each and feel good about it. So a starter and a few blisters could easily have you on your way…

 

 

This is so true.  You can get away with a small investment.  The cheapest way to put an Imp list on the table at anywhere from 30-100pts is 2 TIE's and 2 TIE-Adv (A starter and 2 TIE-Adv Expansions).  The trick is that if you want to be able to put an all TIE list on the table up through 100pts, you simply require a minimum of 6 models based entirely on the low point cost of even the high end TIE pilots.  With 5 TIE's even if you take only named pilots and give all of those who can take skills, Marksmanship, you max out in the high 80's.  If you focus on TIE-Adv, you can get away with three ships just like the Rebs can if you take all the upgrades and bring in all your named pilots.  It's just a different way of doing things.

When list building you've got three ways you can go:

  • Swarm = Low quality/High Quantity.
  • Elite = High Quality/Low Quantity. 
  • Balanced = Mixed Quality/Moderate Quantity.

If you're playing the Imps and you've decided on Swarm, you're going to be spending a bit more.  If you are familiar with miniature wargames, this shouldn't be a shock at all.  Horde armies mean more minis which means more cash required to flesh out your list.  The nice thing about this game is that you don't HAVE to go swarm.  You can get away with 3-4 ships to get to 100pts for either side.

-DavicusPrime






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