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Do you want there to be Jedi in Edge of the Empire?


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#1 cparadis

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:11 PM

 This may be somewhat duplicative of the thread in the main forum, but that thread is very dense with a lot of back and forth and well thought out arguments and counter arguments. I'd like to see in this thread just a simple clear breakdown of what people think.  I'd propose that people comment with either a yes or no answer and then maybe a few sentences why.  I'd also propose that people don't comment more than once or engage in back and forth as I think there is already a great place for that. This thread is merely meant so that people can quickly to take a head count of how many people want Jedi rules and give people an opportunity to briefly and succinctly explain their position. 

So I will start it out.

 

Do you want Jedi in Edge of the Empire?

No.  

I would like to see an Edge of the Empire game with a narrow focus on the Outer Rim in the pre-Battle of Yavin timeline when the Empire is in power.  I think the narrow focus facilitates interesting design like the obligation mechanic (which is amazing and may not have had a place in a more generalist Star Wars game). I want to see Jedi eventually, but I think Edge of the Empire will be a better game without Jedi.  I would also have said a similar thing if the Jedi game came out first, I would want to see a fringer eventually, but I think the Jedi game would be better without rules for fringers.



#2 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:20 PM

No.

But I would like to see that the system will be able to do Jedi when the time comes (on the grounds that the WFRP V1/2 variant used in FFGs 40k games doesn't work very well for a lot of the more powerful characters in a setting filled with powerful characters), and maybe something done to help the pain of those who will have to wait a long time for their favourite thing.



#3 Fechik

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:12 PM

No.

I do like the option for Force Sensitive players, but full fledged Jedi can, and should, wait until other books come out. Also, I am lucky enough  to not have players that HAVE to play Jedi. My players understand the setting and design characters accordingly.



#4 Rassilon

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:42 PM

 

No, I would not like to see 'Jedi' in the Edge of the Empire book.

 

Force savants, sensitives, basic users, sure… full-on Jedi, Sith etc… no.

 

I think it's important to have a robust non-force system in place before introducing the possible unbalancing that can occur with lots of force use in the game.

This was a large problem I had with Saga, while it was really fun to play a Jedi, the non-Jedi were bland and effectively unessential with force users around.

 

Slowly 'ramping-up' force users up in the follow-up books seems like a wise decision to me.



#5 Sutter

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:37 PM

Yes.

However, I am satisfied with the "tip of the iceberg" that they do represent already in the book.  It allows you to create a pretty impressive Force-user already.  So man, am I drooling for the "Force and Destiny" book to hurry up.  It's got me sort of wondering what more they might introduce in the next one as well. 

So, do I want more?  Hell yeah!  But I do love all that they've got so far…..so don't rush anything, alright FFG.  Keep up the WICKED AWESOME job and make the "Force and Destiny" book as EPIC and BAD ASS as it should be.



#6 nobble

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:13 PM

No

The focus of the book has been stated as has the time era of the book, in the current timeline jedi turning up is about as realistic as a T-Rex showing up in an Episode of Dallas…(hence my dislike of the Dawn of Defiance..)


Here was are now.. at the middle.. more and more.. I have the feeling we are getting nowhere...slowly we are getting nowhere and that is a pleasure... it is not irritating to be where one is ... it is only irritating to think one would like to be somewhere else... if we are irritated it is not a pleasure...nothing is a pleasure if we are irritated but suddenly it is a pleasure.. and more and more it is not irritating.. originally we were nowhere and now again we  have the pleasure of slowly being nowhere


#7 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:11 PM

Full-blown Jedi and Sith and other 'masters of the Force?'

Nope, don't need to see them.

The Beta already gives us the fundamentals of Force powers.  I wouldn't mind seeing a more Jedi-focused specialization, one to reflect a character that's had some degree of actual Jedi training, but it doesn't need to bring a PC up to full Jedi Knighthood.

As the Week 2 updates proved, the system as released wasn't ready for even basic-level Force-users, so not having more powerful Force-users such as Jedi Knights, Sith Lords, and the like proved to be a very smart move as it gives FFG a prime opportunity to adapt the system they've created to be able to handle such characters.


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#8 GM Chris

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:50 AM

Yes.

 

But only a "tip of the iceberg" approach.  Just give me some NPC stats I can reverse engineer.  Give me a way to make a KotoR game or a Clone Wars game without having to wait more than 2 years. 


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#9 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:23 AM

No

Jedi need too much background and detail to not be the main focus of a book. The approach FFG has taken seems to be a good one. Give people a taste of the Force, while holding off so they can give Jedi the undivided attention they actually need. 



#10 preacher23

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:20 AM

 I vote no. I love the Jedi but I feel past editions of Star Wars RPG franchise have created a power imbalance by bringing all the era's into play at the beginning. It reminds me of the WEG days and keeps it centered in the era.



#11 CharlieBananas

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:48 AM

No, this game is about the low life of the outer rim, I really fail to see where the Jedi fit into that. The back and forward on this issue seems (maybe unfairly) to come down to "I want a Super Thug" or "I don't want to play in the game FFG are creating", I'm fine with the latter, but don't feel FFG should be spending time providing rules for Jedi when they are not part of this game. Now I AM fine with them providing stats for iconic characters in the final product, and could see a place for Vader or Yoda, the only Jedi known of in this time frame.



#12 GM Chris

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:31 AM

I think this question is mis-representative. 

 

"Do you want there to be Jedi in Edge of the Empire?" (Emphasis mine.)  Answer: probably not - as Jedi aren't a focus of fringe campaigns.

 

How about, "Do you want there to be rules for Jedi right out the gate for FFG's Star Wars RPG?"


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#13 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:35 AM

GM Chris said:

How about, "Do you want there to be rules for Jedi right out the gate for FFG's Star Wars RPG?"

Hell yes!



#14 Sutter

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:42 AM

**** YES!!! 

If they did it EPICALLY AWESOME (my favorite phrase, apparently), then most definitely.  But, I want them to do it perfectly, so if they need the time to build everything up…revealing and introducing tidbits of Force stuff in each installment and then kickin' it full throttle with "Force and Destiny", then that would truly be wicked perfect!!

Man, I'm geekin' out just thinking about it!

 



#15 Callidon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:36 AM

I'd be willing to wait a couple more years to see FFG's full fledged Star Wars game, and just play Beta's from here until then of the different parts.  So from that perspective, Yes of course!

But, given the route they have publicly intended to go with Edge of the Empire and the other sections as stand-alone games?  Nope, cake's not done yet.


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Edge of the Empire: Talent Trees; Force Powers; Character Sheet

 


#16 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:10 AM

GM Chris said:

I think this question is mis-representative. 

On more levels than one.

As I detailed in the thread about "why no playable Jedi?", you first have to define what "Jedi" is before you can answer "do I want them in Edge of the Empire?"

In terms of pure, non-fluff mechanics, we already do have Jedi, in the form of characters with Force powers that can wield lightsabers.  So mechanically, we do have Jedi already.

Now, can they do all the crazy stuff we see them in the movies or the EU?  Nope, which is fine because the movies place the vast majority of those abilities in the hands of elite Jedi Knights and powerful Sith Lords, and Edge of the Empire is not about those types of characters.  FFG and Jay Little made a deliberate design choice to have the initial game focus on something other than the Jedi Knights who have stolen the show in pretty much any other RPG they showed up since the Prequel Trilogy hit the big screens.  I'd rather wait a couple years for them to work out all the kinks in the system before bringing in character types that have a long history of pushing rules up to and sometimes beyond their breaking point.

And this is coming from the guy for whom the overwhelming majority of his long-running Star Wars characters have been Jedi of one sort or another, from the Minor and Young Jedi templates of the WEG days to a demigod-level Jedi wrecking ball in SWSE and plenty more in between.  So as much as I'm eager to get the full rules for Jedi PCs, I'm willing to wait if that's what it takes to keep those same PCs from utterly dominating a mixed-group party the way they tended to do in the various d20 games.


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#17 Sutter

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:32 AM

Jedi will always "dominate" over others.  I mean the sheer scope of the things they can do and the limitless power of the Force dictates that they reign over all.  It's just the way it is….plain and simple.

However, I've never had a campaign ruined by mixing Force Bad Asses with "mundane" Bad Asses.  Nor should it be. 

Characters don't need to be on par with Force users in order to have wicked cool campaigns with Bad Asses on both sides of the spectrum.  I mean, Han Solo couldn't do the **** Luke did or even come close in a million years, but that never stopped him from being Totally, Uber-Awesome and an undisputed favorite of all Star Wars characters.



#18 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:42 AM

 No.

Doesn't fit the setting. Isolated, force-sensitive individuals are cool, but Jedi don't belong. That said, I don't see how they intend to make all three games fit "seamlessly" together…



#19 Sutter

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

They might be referring to the system in general.  That by the time all the books are out, you'll pretty much be able to do any and everything you want to do.  Thus, once compiled together, they'll create one Mega-System.



#20 $hamrock

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

Not at all.

 

Isn't supported by movie canon (not saying EU doesn't count, but most of my players could give a toss about EU).

I think of Jedi as being like Mariah Carey, they are going to be the center of attention even when they don't wish to be.  I think that would take away from the game setting of the outter rim.  

Additionally, moral decision making is going to be hard enough with just the classes I have (that are playing "good guys"), throwing in Jedi who can't morally waver…. doesn't sound wise. Kinda like playing a Pallidan in AD&D Ravenloft (showing my age here), wasn't the brightest idea.

 






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