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Specualtions on B-Wing and TIE Bomber


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#1 Glorian Underhill

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:57 PM

For a possible third wave as far as I know the only Fighter Types left are the B-Wing and the TIE Bomber. And as a token maybe the Shuttle Tydirium.

As far as the rules show Jay Little made different Unit Types, and sometimes both factions get one of those. For Example the TIE Interceptor and the A-Wing comes both with the Boost special rule. And the Millenium Falcon and Slave I are big ships with multiple Fire Arcs and some other specials. My point is that there are new rules build in and then the Empire and the Rebel Scum get their own versions.

 

So for the B-Wing and TIE Bomber I'm expecting some kind of build in Missiles. Power 3 or 4 Weapons which need a Target Lock and don't modify Range defense. If they don't use a Lock they have minimal Blaster Fire as a secondary Option. Less at the TIE Bomber, more at the B-Wing. Thats what I think about it, any other ideas?

 



#2 R2D2

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:50 AM

from what I remember reading on the Slave-1, it will have bombs. So I expect that the bomber class will have a higher hull strength, be slower, less agile, have bombs, a more powerful primary weapon and perhaps something along the lines of missiles, like you suggest.

Id be interested to see if they would somehow represent the gyroscopic cockpit. It should make targetting easier, but if i remember right, would sometimes get locked in position and cause serious problems for the pilot.. perhaps it might allow you to fire whilst in contact or something…

Also, as they have already "previewed" turrets as part of a mission (on the death star table), perhaps wave 3 will see some added 'ground; targets wich would require bombs or be more easily destroyed using them?

Also, the tie bomber seems a little outclassed by a B-wing, which is a more general assault ship, as opposed to a single task bomber… not sure how they would account for this..



#3 Budgernaut

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:59 AM

I think the TIE Bomber and B-wing will not be very equal. You'll need lots of bombers to equal the B-wing's point cost.
 
For the B-wing, I'm guessing 3 attack, 2 agility, 4 hull, and 2 shields (or 3 hull and 3 shields). As for actions, it will have two proton torpedoes, target lock, a new ion cannon weapon (or the same one the Slave I has), and some pilots will have the expert pilot talent slot. The thing that makes the B-wing less attractive  than the wave 1 craft is no astromech. Still, the B-wing is a better craft, so will probably be more expensive than the X-Wing. 
 
I think the Bomber will have 2 attack, 2 agility, 4hull, and 0 shields. I think it will have 1 or 2 missile loads and be the first Imperial craft to boast proton torpedoes. Maybe it will even have 2 of each.
 
For other wave 3 ships, the TIE Defender is a must, and although less well-known, the E-wing should probably be its counter.
 
The TIE Defender will be beastly, with 3 attack, 3 agility, 3 hull, 2 shields, missiles, ion cannons, the barrel roll, and of course elite pilot talents for most ship cards.
 
I'm not familiar enough with the E-wing's capabilities to guess what its stats would be.
 
I think one of the new things introduced in wave 3 will be the fixed (i.e. non-turret) ion cannon, but will probably still be range 1 and have the same effect.
 
Well, such are my predictions.

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#4 Tenrousei

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

I agree that I'm expecting TIE Bombers and the B Wing in the next release.  I'm not sure about the stat lines though…

I think that the B-wing will probably have 2-3 Primary Weapon Value, 2 Agility, 3 Hull, 3 Shields with, just maybe a torpedo and missile icon. Possibably Focus, Target Lock, Evade and Barrel Roll as actions.

I'd expect the Bomber to be a heavier, slower Advanced with more missiles/torpedos.

A point of concern, however, is that we don't realy know what liscensing FFG has.  We can assume they have at least the original 3 movies, but after that we don't really know.  Meaning that, if the other ships mentioned aren't pictured in those films, FFG may not be able to make them.  Many of the ships out there originated in video games and CCG's/RPG's, which would make liscensing even harder.

We'll just have to wait and see.


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#5 SteveSpikes

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:51 AM

Budgernaut said:

I think the TIE Bomber and B-wing will not be very equal. You'll need lots of bombers to equal the B-wing's point cost.
 
For the B-wing, I'm guessing 3 attack, 2 agility, 4 hull, and 2 shields (or 3 hull and 3 shields). As for actions, it will have two proton torpedoes, target lock, a new ion cannon weapon (or the same one the Slave I has), and some pilots will have the expert pilot talent slot. The thing that makes the B-wing less attractive  than the wave 1 craft is no astromech. Still, the B-wing is a better craft, so will probably be more expensive than the X-Wing. 
 
I think the Bomber will have 2 attack, 2 agility, 4hull, and 0 shields. I think it will have 1 or 2 missile loads and be the first Imperial craft to boast proton torpedoes. Maybe it will even have 2 of each.
 
For other wave 3 ships, the TIE Defender is a must, and although less well-known, the E-wing should probably be its counter.
 
The TIE Defender will be beastly, with 3 attack, 3 agility, 3 hull, 2 shields, missiles, ion cannons, the barrel roll, and of course elite pilot talents for most ship cards.
 
I'm not familiar enough with the E-wing's capabilities to guess what its stats would be.
 
I think one of the new things introduced in wave 3 will be the fixed (i.e. non-turret) ion cannon, but will probably still be range 1 and have the same effect.
 
Well, such are my predictions.

I think the B-Wing should have 4 shield points and 6 hull points -- Hear me out.  The B-Wing is designed for direct assault on capital ships, and is the "replacement" for the venerable Y-Wing.

As for mission loadouts, I think it should have access to any, and all types of secondary weaponry -- including a fixed Ion Cannon.

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/B-wing_starfighter



#6 Hrathen

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:23 AM

Budgernaut said:

I think the TIE Bomber and B-wing will not be very equal. You'll need lots of bombers to equal the B-wing's point cost.
 
For the B-wing, I'm guessing 3 attack, 2 agility, 4 hull, and 2 shields (or 3 hull and 3 shields). As for actions, it will have two proton torpedoes, target lock, a new ion cannon weapon (or the same one the Slave I has), and some pilots will have the expert pilot talent slot. The thing that makes the B-wing less attractive  than the wave 1 craft is no astromech. Still, the B-wing is a better craft, so will probably be more expensive than the X-Wing. 
 
I think the Bomber will have 2 attack, 2 agility, 4hull, and 0 shields. I think it will have 1 or 2 missile loads and be the first Imperial craft to boast proton torpedoes. Maybe it will even have 2 of each.
 
For other wave 3 ships, the TIE Defender is a must, and although less well-known, the E-wing should probably be its counter.
 
The TIE Defender will be beastly, with 3 attack, 3 agility, 3 hull, 2 shields, missiles, ion cannons, the barrel roll, and of course elite pilot talents for most ship cards.
 
I'm not familiar enough with the E-wing's capabilities to guess what its stats would be.
 
I think one of the new things introduced in wave 3 will be the fixed (i.e. non-turret) ion cannon, but will probably still be range 1 and have the same effect.
 
Well, such are my predictions.

I hope we get al the core movie (at least IV-VI) ships before any EU stuff.  The E-Wing is just lame, IMO. 


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#7 Budgernaut

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:27 AM

 4 shields and 6 hull seems like a lot. Assaulting capital ships is a good argument for it, though.

Maybe their attack should only be 2. I forgot that they only have 2 blaster cannons.

Any idea how maneuverable the B-wing is? In my mind, Rebel craft maneuverability increases as Y-wing, B-wing, X-wing, A-wing. Does that sound right? 


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#8 DavicusPrime

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:28 AM

From RPG and Vid Game data B-Wings have always had three weapon systems: Fixed Primary Laser weapon, Fixed Ion Cannon, and Proton Torpedoes.  So I would give it a 3 Die Primary attack and a secondary weapon slot for a fixed secondary weapon (not a turreted weapon as the current Y-Wing Turret Upgrade) and a pair of torpedo upgrade slots. 

TIE Bombers have always had the standard TIE Primary laser weapon (so an Attack 2), Missile and torpedo launchers and bombs.  However the TIE Bomber also has the TIE's weaknesses of no shields and relative fragility.  Seems the TIE Bomber is meant to be both an assault ship for fighter and capital ships from it's torpedo and missile launchers, and an atmospheric bomber based on it's bomb racks.  But isn't designed to be the heavy capital ship killer that B-Wings are meant to be.  So I wouldn't expect them to cost much more than a TIE in points, but the upgrades could put them closer to a TIE Advanced in total point cost.

Both of these ships would serve best in objective missions based around one side or other having a target or targets that need a little more than some pew-pew action to destroy.  The rebels would have an easier time with these missions due to the fact that pretty much everything other than an A-wing can function as a fighter/bomber on the Reb side.  Imps are much more restricted when it comes to ordinance.  But then they were originally designed to fight from the launch bay of a capital ship.  I suspect the idea is that the capital ship would have the firepower to do the hammering while the fighters were designed to swat the flies.

-DavicusPrime



#9 Budgernaut

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:31 AM

 That wookieepedia article linked above seems to indicate that B-wings are both fragile and not very maneuverable. What if they had a low hull value, but strong shields, like 2 hull and 6 shields? The benefit to that is, even though they can't increase shields with R2 (having no astromech pit) they can still take a lot of critical hits without suffering the effects, since it just takes a shield point away.


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#10 AncientAngel

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:37 AM

Just from a pure fighter - bomber perspective with star wars out of the picture. The bombers are expected to be less agile and maybe even slow but expected to take the abuse to hit their target. So I do agree with all that has been mentioned thus far. Has anyone thought of possible longer ranged missiles? Of coarse limited to a certain ship type.

It seems the missiles that are currently out are more alone the lines of the dog fighting variety. Even having a missile that has range 4 capabilities is an advantage. But it would also break the current dynamic of the game and I doubt you could package a 4inch marker in a ship expansion booster.

Just throwing out some thoughts that have crossed my mind.



#11 Daveydavedave

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:48 AM

Budgernaut said:

 That wookieepedia article linked above seems to indicate that B-wings are both fragile and not very maneuverable. What if they had a low hull value, but strong shields, like 2 hull and 6 shields? The benefit to that is, even though they can't increase shields with R2 (having no astromech pit) they can still take a lot of critical hits without suffering the effects, since it just takes a shield point away.

This is a great suggestion



#12 Buckaroo

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:34 AM

Budgernaut said:

 That wookieepedia article linked above seems to indicate that B-wings are both fragile and not very maneuverable. What if they had a low hull value, but strong shields, like 2 hull and 6 shields? The benefit to that is, even though they can't increase shields with R2 (having no astromech pit) they can still take a lot of critical hits without suffering the effects, since it just takes a shield point away.

 

I don't know how much stock to put in Wookeepedia as opposed to any other source but the B-wing was more robust, not less than the Y-Wing in both the Old Lucasarts X Wing games and WEG Star Wars (RPG and Star Warriors).

 

I'd personally like to see the B with more or equal hull to the Y and equal shields to the Y.

With the X Wing sitting at 3 Hull and the Y at 5 I could see giving the B Wing a 5-6 hull.

Manuevability should be slightly better then a Y but worse then an X so you could justify going either way AGL  1-2.

Though for balance purposes I wouldn't be surprised if it came with an AGL of 1 to balance a lot of Hull and Shields.

No R2 Slot but double torpedos would be a must.



#13 Wes Janson

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:37 AM

My own research and time spent pouring through Star Wars tombs points at the B-Wing being rated as difficult to fly, so for starters I say limit the pilot cards in that matter (no rookies). The fighter also lacks an astromech, so this should also not be allowed as an upgrade. On the plus side apparently it is a modular design allowing for weapon swaps based on the mission, and its targeting computer allows for independant tracking between missile and blaster targets. Primary mission being attacks on enemy capital ships, not fighter combat.

Second, the B-wing carries 12 Proton Torpedoes, (4 more then the Y-wing), is speedier then the previous but slower then the X-Wing. In a direct fire role it also has 3 laser cannons and 3 ion cannons, once again making it more potent then the Y-Wing. Based on X-Wing games in the past, its shielding is the best of the rebel fighters, but its hull was not as robust as the older Y-wing. So I figure one better blaster attack rating, two torp cards, same agility as Y-Wing, 1 better shield, 2 less hull.

The Tie bomber finds itself in a similar situation as the B-Wing, being designed for attacks against capital ships, and slower then most standard starfighters and lass manouverable. If I remember correctly it was even slower then the Y-Wing, only has 2 laser cannons, but carried more heavy weapons, such as concussion missiles or proton torpedoes, proton bombs and thermal detonators. Apparently their targeting systems were also quite accurate. From a durability stand point, all I have to go on was the X-wing PC games, which had them being about 3 times tougher then a standard TIE.

To me, a more comparable fighter to the B-wing would be the Imperial Assault Gunboat, which I hope shows up at some point.



#14 R5Don4

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

 As long as it can barrel roll I'll be happy.


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#15 Prathin

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:04 PM

 

3 attack

1 agility, not much more agile (turning) than the Y.

3 hull and 5 shields, opposite of Y because hull not as strong but good shields.

Target lock, focus, and I feel like it should have barrel roll or evade because of the rotation around the cockpit.

3 Torpedoes, Elite pilot talent, ion cannon (non rotating)

I can see the dial being close to the Y-Wing's, maybe one or two more greens

 



#16 Hrathen

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:51 AM

AncientAngel said:

Just from a pure fighter - bomber perspective with star wars out of the picture. The bombers are expected to be less agile and maybe even slow but expected to take the abuse to hit their target. So I do agree with all that has been mentioned thus far. Has anyone thought of possible longer ranged missiles? Of coarse limited to a certain ship type.

It seems the missiles that are currently out are more alone the lines of the dog fighting variety. Even having a missile that has range 4 capabilities is an advantage. But it would also break the current dynamic of the game and I doubt you could package a 4inch marker in a ship expansion booster.

Just throwing out some thoughts that have crossed my mind.

Compare the A-4 and F-4 from the Vietnam war.  The A-4 (the bomber) was considerably smaller, faster and more manuverable than the F-4 (the fighter).

Post Vietnam war almost all US fighters are designed to fulfill both Anti-Aircraft and Bombing roles.  In the first Gulf War the F-16 (one of our  smaller fighters) dropped more ordinance than any other craft.

But that doesn't really have to have anything to do with Star Wars.

As for how the B-wing compares to the other rebel craft.  Based on my experience with the X-wing PC game and the Star Wars Role Playing game the B-wing was less manuverable than the Y-Wing.  It carried more and heavier weapons. It had stronger shields.  It wasn't particularly strong without its shields.

I can see the B-Wing having new upgrades to put into the Torpedo slot.


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#17 Hrathen

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:00 AM

Prathin said:

 

3 attack

1 agility, not much more agile (turning) than the Y.

3 hull and 5 shields, opposite of Y because hull not as strong but good shields.

Target lock, focus, and I feel like it should have barrel roll or evade because of the rotation around the cockpit.

3 Torpedoes, Elite pilot talent, ion cannon (non rotating)

I can see the dial being close to the Y-Wing's, maybe one or two more greens

 

I agree mostly except for:

Elite Pilot upgrade seems only to be for ace pilots regardless of the ship they fly.

I don't think they should have barrel roll because they aren't a very manuverable ship.

I can see them with 3 torpedoes, because they had more ammo than Y-wings in the PC game.  But that is 12 points just on Torpedoes.

I think that Slave I will introduce an Ion Cannon (rather than an Ion Turret) I think the B-wing could have that.  In fact a Cannon upgrade slot might be exactly what the B-Wing needs to make it really cool.

I see the dial being pretty close to the Y-wing's perhaps a little slower, but with fewer reds.  Maybe even a hard 1.  That hard 1 is great manuver I have wished Darth had it many times.


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#18 DavicusPrime

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:31 AM

I think the standard Upgrade Bar for B's should be 2-3 Torpedo Slots and a Secondary Cannon Upgrade.  Add an Elite Skill slot to the highest ranked named pilot and that should do it.

The base fire power should be 3 Attack Dice due to the Combo in the description of 2 lighter cannons and a single higher power cannon.  The common Secondary cannon ought to be a fixed Ion cannon.  But if they came up with an additional laser cannon upgrade that added a die to the base attack rating would be a powerful upgrade.

I think reversing the Y's stats for Hull and Shields is a good idea.  As for maneuverability, it's still a bomber, 1 fits 2 makes it equal to an X which just doesn't seem to fit the description.

These ships weren't meant for dog fighting, these are out for bigger game.

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#19 Budgernaut

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:35 AM

DavicusPrime said:

I think the standard Upgrade Bar for B's should be 2-3 Torpedo Slots and a Secondary Cannon Upgrade.  Add an Elite Skill slot to the highest ranked named pilot and that should do it.

I think you left Target Lock off , but that's implied since you have Proton Torpedoes listed.


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#20 Hrathen

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:40 AM

DavicusPrime said:

These ships weren't meant for dog fighting, these are out for bigger game.

-DavicusPrime

except this is a dog fighting game.  But I agree with the sentiment.  In a dog fighting game, if they are anything more than objectives, then they should be less manuverable but hit hard.

 

That is the big difference I see between the Y-wing and the B-wing.  The Y-wing can take damage okay, but its low agility makes hits pretty easy.  But the Y-wing also has trouble dishing out damage without upgrade.  If the B-wing had three attack dice, that change alone would make it seriously better than the Y-wing.


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