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Can a Wyrdling mutant take psychic techniques from the Theosophany Discipline?


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#1 HappyDaze

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:06 AM

I am looking at possible psychic technique selections for a mutant with Wyrdling. He can select two techniques from a single Discipline and does not get the basic technique of the discipline. So far so good.

Theosophany is from Into the Storm and is a quasi-religious set of powers based on shielding others from the Warp. Theosophany techniques are described as having ritual trappings, but I don't see that hard-coded into the write-ups for techniques themselves aside from those that refer to the Soul-Bond (which appear to be limited to Sanctioned Psykers, Inquisitors, and other psykers of the Imperium).  Not all of the Theosophany techniques seem to have this limit, and my Wyrdling is looking at two that do not: Seal the Breach and Banishment.

This effectively creates a Wyrdling that is based around being anti-daemon and anti-psyker. Is there any reason that the Wyrdling could not (please avoid suggestions of 'should not') select those two powers?


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#2 Plushy

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:13 PM

 Only thing I have to say on the matter is that's a super cool character concept. He's a devout rogue psyker; it's so wonderfully nonsensical! Would he allow himself to be Sanctioned?


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#3 Fgdsfg

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:09 AM

I can see no reason whatsoever as to why you would be unable to take those powers.


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#4 angelis1974

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:28 AM

Well as long as the character is strong in his faith to the emperor yes as he is manifesting his faith, if he ever loses that faith on the other hand things could be trickier. However that’s a GM and RP issue and could be an interesting side plot if they player wants to go that way, mechanically there is no issue with taking the powers.

 

As for the soul bound trait I believe it is only Astropaths who have it and only they can take those powers that need it, as they are specifically channelling the emperor rather than faith in the emperor, the rest of the powers are open to anyone who has enough faith.
 



#5 HappyDaze

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:22 AM

Plushy said:

 Only thing I have to say on the matter is that's a super cool character concept. He's a devout rogue psyker; it's so wonderfully nonsensical! Would he allow himself to be Sanctioned?

Well, not quite. She's not particularly devout at all - her powers developed as such for self-preservation in the face of warp exposure and (per her background) to help her family cast off a daemonic possession. She's not at all interested in trying to become Sanctioned, since she's a pessimist and fairly certain she'd become little more than a sacrifice to the Emperor.


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#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:25 AM

angelis1974 said:

the rest of the powers are open to anyone who has enough faith.

I guess my question got lost. I didn't see anything in the description of those two powers that say they require faith to operate. IOW, she wields the powers naturally and without the trappings of faith - much as other Wyrdlings might use Short Range Telepathy or Delude.


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#7 Fgdsfg

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:05 AM

HappyDaze said:

Plushy said:

 

 Only thing I have to say on the matter is that's a super cool character concept. He's a devout rogue psyker; it's so wonderfully nonsensical! Would he allow himself to be Sanctioned?

 

 

Well, not quite. She's not particularly devout at all - her powers developed as such for self-preservation in the face of warp exposure and (per her background) to help her family cast off a daemonic possession. She's not at all interested in trying to become Sanctioned, since she's a pessimist and fairly certain she'd become little more than a sacrifice to the Emperor.

Sacrifice to the Emperor? You mean the Astronomican? How would she even know about one of the Psykana's most guarded secrets?


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#8 exseraph

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:11 AM

Fgdsfg said:

Sacrifice to the Emperor? You mean the Astronomican? How would she even know about one of the Psykana's most guarded secrets?

 

Well, she wouldn't have to know the specifics. She might have just noticed/heard that for every hundred psykers that go to Terra, only one comes back, and come to her own conclusions. There are a fair number of psykers who run from the black ships, so people must have at least some misgivings about them.



#9 Fgdsfg

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:51 AM

exseraph said:

Fgdsfg said:

 

Sacrifice to the Emperor? You mean the Astronomican? How would she even know about one of the Psykana's most guarded secrets?

 

 

 

Well, she wouldn't have to know the specifics. She might have just noticed/heard that for every hundred psykers that go to Terra, only one comes back, and come to her own conclusions. There are a fair number of psykers who run from the black ships, so people must have at least some misgivings about them.

I would think kidnapping, imprisonment, torture and possible execution would be enough of a reason to not wanting to go to the Black Ships. I don't think a single individual know enough psykers in their lifetime to make the conclusion that hundreds go, but only a few come back. Hell, I would almost think that the likelihood of you ever meeting any of the few psykers you knew after they left with the black ships would be somewhere in the neighborhood of zero.


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These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#10 Blood Pact

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:40 AM

exseraph said:

Fgdsfg said:

 

Sacrifice to the Emperor? You mean the Astronomican? How would she even know about one of the Psykana's most guarded secrets?

 

 

 

Well, she wouldn't have to know the specifics. She might have just noticed/heard that for every hundred psykers that go to Terra, only one comes back, and come to her own conclusions. There are a fair number of psykers who run from the black ships, so people must have at least some misgivings about them.

Yeah… I'd say they have absolutely no right to know any of that.

It doesn't mean they don't have the common sense to understand that turning themselves in might be a bad thing, though.

 



#11 HappyDaze

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:01 AM

Forbidden Lore skills are not that hard to come by.


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#12 Thebigjul

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:49 AM

If for you be in a table is the prerequisited for learning skill then yes no skill is hard to get.

If you work like RPG should you will see that finding someone capable of teach you forbidden lore is quite difficult, and even more if it must be a high placed Astropath that know the reality of the fact going on in the golden throne of Him on Terra.

Just try to think how many people are knowing such things, and then how many will risk his life for an unsanctionned psyker…

The answer is none, but in your world maybe Tom Grain, farmer from the agriworld of Food can teach forbidden lore: golden throne to his child during long winter nighjt.

And of course he will know that because it is passed in his familly from father to son since the day his ancestor was working on the bolt of the machinery of the golden throne itself 10 thousand years ago. And off course could have read and understand those blueprint adeptus mechanicus magos let behind them at each street corner.

The only way to know a bit of it is to have been on a blackship and 1- escape from it because malfunction, rebellion, riot, chaos raidzers,.. 2- Have been in a blackship made the trip to terra and survive.

 



#13 HappyDaze

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:31 AM

Thebigjul said:

The only way to know a bit of it is to have been on a blackship and 1- escape from it because malfunction, rebellion, riot, chaos raidzers,.. 2- Have been in a blackship made the trip to terra and survive.

Or to be a Footfallen that has Peer (Astropaths) right from the start and began as a servant boy to the local Choir. Sometimes the least servant can overhear things he shouldn't, and when he later starts to manifest strange powers, well… It's time to get running.


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#14 Thebigjul

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:59 PM

I totaly agree with you, that's true, servants knows lot more than what their master think.

But in this case, I really doubt your caracter with psy rating and unsanctionned could even pass for a servant.

And I seriously doubt that close servant of the choir could move freely out of the sanctum. But after all why not.

It will be knowledge without understanding, miss interpretation and false conclusion made by untrained people but a bit of truth in a lot of misstake could be a begin.

Something like vampire hate garlic, sun and got completly crazy if you hide one of their socks, and they will die if you put a lemon on their mouth. Some are true, some aren't.



#15 Blood Pact

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:51 AM

*sigh*… just because I know someone else will mention it…

 

spoilers..

 

spoilers

 

spoilers

 

 

There's actually a rather similar situation in the 3rd Arbites novel., with a rogue psyker hiding in an astropathic communication nexus, for many years apparently. Able to get away with it (apparently) because they're just not noticed among all the background psychic static (with laying pretty low and 'friends' covering for you too).

 

 

spoilers over…

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, aside from what they picked up themself, they know nothing of psykery or the great secrets of the universe, ala the Golden Throne, sacrificing psykers, etc., etc….

Which really don't seem like things psykers would ever talk about anyway. Who has conversations about basically having your brain plugged in to God? Anywhere. Let alone where the servants can overhear. Or talk about the Astronomicon or the sacrifices to the Throne (both groups are likely sequestered away from the talented psykers anyway). While it is an event that millions have in common, the Soul Binding comes off as a deeply personal experience, the kind of thing you don't talk about, because you just don't.



#16 Fresnel

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:26 PM

The Horus Heresy novel 'The Outcast Dead' features an Astropath protagonist. After becoming unable to function he is sent back to Terra to see if he can be salvaged by the experts there. It is mentioned many times that if the treatments are not successful he will end up in 'The Hollow Mountain'…

According to this novel the knowledge of how the Astronomicon is fueled is common amongst astropaths. Even if you are selected for Astropathic training a proportion fail the training and serve in the the hollow mountain. This threat serves to motivate the students. If even so, it probably isn't a something astropaths discuss with others.

Essentially the Black Ships and the Astronomicon can be likened to the holocost trains and the gas chambers. Some 'lucky' few are judged useful to the authorities and are given work - but they are hardly safe.

 

 



#17 Blood Pact

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 04:59 AM

Fresnel said:

The Horus Heresy novel 'The Outcast Dead' features an Astropath protagonist. After becoming unable to function he is sent back to Terra to see if he can be salvaged by the experts there. It is mentioned many times that if the treatments are not successful he will end up in 'The Hollow Mountain'…

According to this novel the knowledge of how the Astronomicon is fueled is common amongst astropaths. Even if you are selected for Astropathic training a proportion fail the training and serve in the the hollow mountain. This threat serves to motivate the students. If even so, it probably isn't a something astropaths discuss with others.

Essentially the Black Ships and the Astronomicon can be likened to the holocost trains and the gas chambers. Some 'lucky' few are judged useful to the authorities and are given work - but they are hardly safe. 

However, it's made apparent that while they 'know' what happens in the Hollow Mountain, they don't know the specifics of it, just that it is a place where failures and the weak are taken to die, useful to some greater purpose.

It doesn't actually say whether anyone knows this when they're just a student though. Or that it's used on the students as some form of motivational threat. The character in The Outcast Dead has been an Astropath for a long time, and is quite the powerful and respected one. They are the exception, not the rule.

And while it is an apt comparison… I ALWAYS hate seeing people compare what the Imperium does to the holocaust. Considering that every untrained psyker is at risk of causing as much damage as a nuclear detonation (trained ones only marginally less so).



#18 HappyDaze

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:23 AM

There's no reason to believe that you couldn't have a somewhat irreverent group of Astropaths that trade taunts in their off time. Throwing barbs about how the other(s) really should have been sent to the Hollow Mountain.  This is the kind of thing a servant might pick up on.


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#19 jarsen

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:19 AM

 I agree. Even if you don't know the specifics of what the Imperium does to psykers, I think it could be pretty common knowledge that people who manifest pskyer powers are taken away. It would be difficult to obtain the forbidden lore that would let you know what actually happens, but their imagination can fill in the gaps.

Furthermore it's not just the official branches of government they have to worry about, but I think throughout the imperium people are somewhat distrusting of psykers in general. especially non-sactioned ones. I think many pskyers that somehow learned to manage their powers without being caught will have learned that it's often best kept a secret.



#20 Fresnel

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:06 AM

 If I recall correctly "The Outcast Dead" does describe the slow burning away of the victim's soul. It was known that this was a fate vastly worse than death. Although the astronomicon ensures the survival of humanity, the scale of operation, coupled with the physical and spiritual torture dwarves any real world event.






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