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Potential of core playset expansion?


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#1 Pixel

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

 Hiya,

I'm a big fan of the Fantasy Flight LCG game lines and so with my new purchase of Netrunner a common problem comes up and I was wondering about the potential of a solution, especially for Netrunner but applicable to the other lines too (yay if it hits for AGoT also)

That is, what might be the chances of releasing a playset expansion for the core game? It could be marketed much like the Chapter packs but only contain the cards needed to increase the coreset to be a full playset. It could be priced relative to the number of cards. Counting the number of cards needed to make the coregame a full playset, I get 77 cards total needed. It occurs to me then that this is perfect and can even make use of possible a single playset of a promo card to round the number off to a perfect 80 and give more incentive to purchase the expansion.

Being 80 cards, it would price nicely just above the established price of Call of Cthulhu and AGoT chapter packs. So it'd end up $18-20 and would need no real development time as only a single promo card would need to be designed. (My initial thought would be that a neutral promo Agenda to immediatly give alittle more versatility in deckbuilding the agendas would be of most value)

Please make this happen if you can! I'm certain it'd be a hit! (Then expand it to the other LCG lines! =D  )

So let's hear if this is possible and if so get it to the press fast! I'm so excited about the game and am ready to throw more cash at it lol =D



#2 zedward

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:21 AM

 I believe FFG has already gone on record as saying they will not be doing this, unfortunately.



#3 sinnerfold

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:27 AM

That is a cool idea, and honestly, I wish you worked for FFG so we could maybe have seen this. Unfortunately as it stands, you're going to just need to decide to either buy 3 core sets (which if you're like me I recommend going ahead and getting that out of the way) OR waiting for expansions to start rolling out.



#4 Toqtamish

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:30 AM

FFG has gone on record that they will not do this for any games core set. They prefer to have diversity over quantity of cards in each core set. And it is not cost effective for them to make a just the cards expansion pack for the core sets. If you want more options, get at least two core sets. I have two core sets for A Game of Thrones LCG and it has proven to be a good thing to have. I plan to get at least two, maybe three of Netrunner.



#5 Pixel

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:00 PM

 Were they saying they didn't want to make a 'just the cards' expansion or a core game playset expansion?

I don't propose a 'just the cards' expansion but instead an expansion that specifically only supplies the cards that lack a playset as is in the core. I've considered getting multiple copies of core sets before but really can't quite bring myself to buy it twice more. I've also been asked by friends to split another box and that's much more reasonable to me but while that fills out all the sets that were initially 2ofs, we'd need to split the ones that are packed as singles.

While they may have gone on the record in the past about it, maybe things change and they may be persuaded to go ahead with it if the demand really is there. So while it may have been stated in the past for other games, with a new game line in their lcg collection, new opportunities for change present themselves.

Interestingly, I'm certain many of the rest of you would too. Interestingly, I'd believe that those who bought multiple copies of the core game to fill in playsets would still benefit from buying such an expansion. My thought is that yes, while someone with the money and love of the game may already own 2-3 core sets, give them the opportunity to buy such an expansion and they'd go from owning 1 full playset, and a heap of excess cards to having 2-3 full playsets they can then gift to their friends to get more people into the game.

So while I don't believe any reasoning FFG has for not doing this would change overnight and my friend has already consoled me that it's unlikely to happen, I wanted to still put this out there as it's definitely not going to change unless people are vocal about it in the first place.

So let's hear from everyone! How much would you love this? If you've already bought multiple core sets, would you still then buy more to fill out the excess cards you have into playsets? How much would you pay for this sort of expansion?



#6 Doc Savage

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

 I really think that FFG either made a big mistake in not printing 3 per card in the core set, or not offering that as an option for competive players.

This really strikes me as a money grab to not offer a small expansion pack instead of assuming tournament players will just buy three core sets.

Come on, FFG. Put a plain package offering in your FFG Collector area for $25 bucks and give us the cards to have 3 each from the starter set. Touting the Living Card game as a cheaper alternative to CCGs should compel you to do this.


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#7 zedward

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:45 PM

By my count, it would take 79 cards to get 3-ofs of everything but the Identity cards. I would probably pay $20 for that (based on 60 cards for $15 in the Chapter Packs). But that means I am not spending $40 on another Core Set (or $80 on two more to get 3-ofs of 12 of the cards). If you were FFG, would you rather make $20 or $40-$80?



#8 juggler434

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:11 PM

Plus releasing a core expansion at this point would annoy the people who already bought multiple core sets, who are the people most likely to buy the data packs when they come out.  I don't see FFG releasing a core expansion.



#9 zedward

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:14 PM

juggler434 said:

Plus releasing a core expansion at this point would annoy the people who already bought multiple core sets, who are the people most likely to buy the data packs when they come out.  I don't see FFG releasing a core expansion.

This is a great point.



#10 Toqtamish

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:19 PM

It is never goin to happen folks. FFG has made that clear several times with the other LCGs. This horse has beaten enough. 



#11 Scud-O

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:24 AM

Also, as someone who plans on being a "competitive player," I can tell you that two core sets is all you need. The cards that come one-of are not cards that you would want three of in your deck (for the most part - I guess I could see playing three SanSan Grid but, man, would that be expensive). Two Core Sets will give you everything you need to build decks that will win. Also, having two Core Sets will allow you to provide decks for four players (using the starter decks) so you can get more people into the game.



#12 MarthWMaster

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:09 AM

zedward said:

juggler434 said:

 

Plus releasing a core expansion at this point would annoy the people who already bought multiple core sets, who are the people most likely to buy the data packs when they come out.  I don't see FFG releasing a core expansion.

 

 

This is a great point.

It's actually not. When they re-released old packs from AGoT and CoC with the 60-card format, the overwhelming response was positive. And why shouldn't the same happen here? Even if it's a bit late to be announcing a core expansion, and might even feel a bit unfair for those who already purchased 2x or 3x, why should we want our fellow players to be spending $20 - $60 more on the hobby than they should be?


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#13 subochre

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:35 AM

Even if they did make such an expansion, I'd still skip it and buy a second core set instead.  This ensures enough copies of all the cards I might want three of (Astroscript, Rabbit Hole, Scorched Earth…), but the main reason is being able to build more than one corp and runner deck at a time.  Buying more core sets gives you all the neutrals you (currently) need, and whatever other cards you might want to cross-faction.  A supplementary pack wouldn't give you any of that; all you'd get are more consoles and Data Dealers than you'll ever use.  Yay?



#14 Toqtamish

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:32 AM

MarthWMaster said:

zedward said:

 

juggler434 said:

 

Plus releasing a core expansion at this point would annoy the people who already bought multiple core sets, who are the people most likely to buy the data packs when they come out.  I don't see FFG releasing a core expansion.

 

 

This is a great point.

 

 

It's actually not. When they re-released old packs from AGoT and CoC with the 60-card format, the overwhelming response was positive. And why shouldn't the same happen here? Even if it's a bit late to be announcing a core expansion, and might even feel a bit unfair for those who already purchased 2x or 3x, why should we want our fellow players to be spending $20 - $60 more on the hobby than they should be?

 

Not the same thing. Those were expansion packs that used to be 40 cards, 1 copy of 10 cards and 3 copies of 10 cards. They then upgraded them all so that it is now 3x of every card in the re-released packs. Nothing about any of the Core sets for either of those already existing LCG's changed at that point. Just the way expansion cycle packs work. There will be no miniature release of core set cards to bump them all to 3 copies. Buy a second core set or don't. I plan on getting a second one so I can build more decks and also tune decks better for competitive play. The extra copies of cards will allow me to hopefully always have two starter decks ready to go for demos and learn to play. If not I will get a third copy.



#15 Toqtamish

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:34 AM

Scud-O said:

Also, as someone who plans on being a "competitive player," I can tell you that two core sets is all you need. The cards that come one-of are not cards that you would want three of in your deck (for the most part - I guess I could see playing three SanSan Grid but, man, would that be expensive). Two Core Sets will give you everything you need to build decks that will win. Also, having two Core Sets will allow you to provide decks for four players (using the starter decks) so you can get more people into the game.

subochre said:

Even if they did make such an expansion, I'd still skip it and buy a second core set instead. This ensures enough copies of all the cards I might want three of (Astroscript, Rabbit Hole, Scorched Earth…), but the main reason is being able to build more than one corp and runner deck at a time. Buying more core sets gives you all the neutrals you (currently) need, and whatever other cards you might want to cross-faction. A supplementary pack wouldn't give you any of that; all you'd get are more consoles and Data Dealers than you'll ever use. Yay?

 

Agree with both of you. All great points.

 



#16 subochre

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:44 AM

 Heh, I started out saying something different, but seeing the posts side-by-side makes me realize I was mostly just parroting Scud-O 



#17 MarthWMaster

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:05 AM

Toqtamish said:

MarthWMaster said:

 

zedward said:

 

juggler434 said:

 

Plus releasing a core expansion at this point would annoy the people who already bought multiple core sets, who are the people most likely to buy the data packs when they come out.  I don't see FFG releasing a core expansion.

 

 

This is a great point.

 

 

It's actually not. When they re-released old packs from AGoT and CoC with the 60-card format, the overwhelming response was positive. And why shouldn't the same happen here? Even if it's a bit late to be announcing a core expansion, and might even feel a bit unfair for those who already purchased 2x or 3x, why should we want our fellow players to be spending $20 - $60 more on the hobby than they should be?

 

 

 

Not the same thing. Those were expansion packs that used to be 40 cards, 1 copy of 10 cards and 3 copies of 10 cards. They then upgraded them all so that it is now 3x of every card in the re-released packs. Nothing about any of the Core sets for either of those already existing LCG's changed at that point. Just the way expansion cycle packs work. 

Please clarify. My argument is simply that players would not argue with having the option of buying an expansion, rather than multiple Core sets. You fail to explain why this would not be the case.


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#18 Toqtamish

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:20 AM

You were giving an example using expansion cycle pack reprints. It is not the same thing as a core set. FFG stance on core sets has been made clear ALOT of times. The horse is dead stop beating it. FFG wants diversity in their core sets not completeness. If they were to move the core sets to 3x cards there would be a lot less actual different cards in the core sets. They have also said it is not viable to just print extra copies of the cards in the core sets.

Buying an extra core set is really not a big deal. It is way cheaper than any CCG option and not something you have to do by any means. I played for a year before I ever got my second copy of AGoT core set. Having the second core set was great, I gave the extra rules to a friend. I have more house cards to use with my multiple decks, extra game pieces that I gave to my friend just starting out etc. I will do the same thing with Netrunner soon as I get my second set.



#19 Pixel

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:11 PM

 This isn't exactly what I'm asking for. I am extremely happy to receive a more diverse set of cards that may lack playsets, instead what would make me estatic would be the option to purchase an add on pack that would fill in the gaps that exist in the core game's card sets. I understand why it's not economically feasible to pursue making a coreset a full playset but instead allowing for this addon pack will mean for many more sales. 

I don't believe offering such an option would bother many people who've already purchased multiple core sets either as then they can buy the addon packs to upgrade each of their coresets to a full playset. In such a social hobby, this is an excellent choice as that means you now have even more copies of the game and you can gift them to friends or donate them to local gamestores. Really so many ways to use your now multiple playsets. While not precisely similar, I do believe that Dominion has had quite some success with their add on pack which turns any expansion into a full copy of the game (addon only contains gold and VPs). Having more choices on how to purchase the product can hardly be a bad thing (buy just core? multiple cores? core and an addon?) and while you may worry customers who already purchased multiple copies feel tricked or betrayed by the introduction of an addon pack, remember that it may mark the beginning of a trend such that future LCG lines may come immediately with an addon pack option.

Finally as for beating a dead horse, I'm not looking to push for playsets of cards in a core game. I'm looking at the creation of an addon pack that would again, "fill in the gaps" for the coreset. Even more incentive can be created by packaging one or two promo cards into the addon pack too. So while the issue of getting a full playset with every coreset is absolutely dead, the potential for an addon pack is far from it. Voicing my desire of the product goes a long way towards establishing that demand for this exists, it'd be profitable and players would benefit from it. I want to put it out there as a rallying cry for exposure that there is a huge demand for this type of product. My thoughts on the costs are that all of the cards are done and designed, only more need to be printed and packaging designed to get this product on store shelves instantly. The earlier in the life of the game that this product exists, the more appealing the game becomes as showing it to long time ccg players will really highlight the appeal of the LCG model when i can drop the coregame and a single $20 addon in front of them at the register and say "you're set now, full playset! Go forth and deckbuild!"

P.S. 

Adding a promo or two to the addon pack would be an exceptional way to drive further demand even from people who have multiple coresets. A perfect choice for such a promo alongside this game would be a new neutral agenda which would immediately provide huge customization benefits as the core set sees you using every single one of your own agendas along with all of the neutrals with no chance for customizing that aspect of the deck out of the box yet. A single set of new agendas also provides the opportunity to make larger than minimum decks right away as well.

While it may then offend some of those who purchased multiple coresets that there now exists a single card they do not have access to, programs could be enacted that could reward the submission of multiple core set proof of purchases or availability of the single promo in marketplaces such as the boardgamegeek store or FFG online stores. In short there should be no reason why the sudden availability of such an addon pack would upset players who have already exhibited their love of the game and want it to succeed further.

 

Finally: So once more I call, not about beating playset dead horses, but for interest in an addon pack available alongside the CoreSet. Would you be happy to know that this addon pack was available for purchase? Would you buy it for netrunner? for other LCG lines including future ones? Would you recommend it to others? I'm fishing for demand here so let's hear back in waves even if it's only a "YAR!"!!!!!



#20 Toqtamish

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:14 PM

No, I fully support FFG and their core set decision and fully endorse anyone who wants more cards to get the extra core set. Trust me having the extra core set is great and of more benefit than you might think at first. And no amount of petitioning is going to change this. It hasn't worked before any of the other bazillion times these threads come up. FFG is on record that the cost for this is not worth it to make an add on pack.






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