Jump to content



Photo

Do you use the counters?


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 prune

prune

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:08 PM

I gave them a try at first because they look so nice, but I've given up on most of them.

You handle credits very often, and quite a few of them.  I find the credit tokens a little clumsy to handle in comparison to glass beads, so I've switched to those for credits.

I also find the click tracker token clumsy to handle for how often it's used, and it can also confuse people.  Maybe I put the counter to cover a number when I've just taken that action (so it starts off the card, and ends covering 4 if I'm the runner).  Meanwhile, you have the token cover up the number of your next action (so it starts on 1 and ends off of the card).  When we play, we'll both always be confused about what the other is doing.

So, I use a different color of glass beads, and put the right number of them on the click tracker.  I slide one off of the card every time I spend a click.  Quick, less clumsy, and it's totally obvious what I'm doing even if my opponent has a different scheme.

I do use the tag, bad publicity, brain damage, and the red and blue tokens though.  They look good, they're obvious, you don't handle them nearly as often or in quantity, and it avoids having to use yet another color of counter.



#2 Toqtamish

Toqtamish

    Toqtamish

  • Members
  • 3,012 posts

Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:38 PM

Yes I use the tokens. I always do for the LCGs. They feel more thematic to me. 



#3 Ariston

Ariston

    Member

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

I can imagine not using all their types (e.g., keeping track of virus counters in another fashion) in competitive play (due to space & time concerns), but for casual play (especially at a home where you're more likely to have room to spread out) I'm always going to use them because I find a lot of tactile satisfaction in having physical objects to manipulate.

 

More importantly, though, I think having an immediately tangible way to deal with the non-card permanent elements is very helpful for new players; remembering to manipulate dice can be difficult, or just not be a helpful way to immerse a new player. Experienced CCG players will probably not be as likely to benefit from this when learning, but those who are used to board games may feel a bit disconnected, and have a harder time understanding their opponent's board state. (It's harder to immediately see, for example, credits represented on dice, whereas a pile of the things is pretty obvious.*)

 

Additionally: I am adverse to using dice to keep track of numbers in games (in competitive play, anyhow); they are usually not very quick to manipulate, and are easy to have accidents or "accidents" with. I think paper records of player credits are fine, while recurring credits and other credits on cards perhaps should be tokens. I was actually somewhat surprised by the fact that the current floor rules do not address these issues. They do mention that players are responsible for bringing their own tokens, but that doesn't mean tokens are required or preferred or what other methods are acceptable for keeping track of various game states.

 

 

* If I want to to be more detailed in what I'm trying to get at here, the Heideggerian concepts of readiness-to-hand & presence-at-hand are what I am using to describe this to myself. Experienced players will often take that sort of abstract representation and interact with it in a way that does not require very much conscious attention, but new players have not become immersed in the game at all yet (the chits aren't even really "ready-to-hand"), much less at the level where further abstractions are natural. Obviously, persons differ in their ability to absorb the spaces defined by games as they are learning (such as being quick studies or having a lot of other experience to make analogies with), but even experienced players sometimes overestimate their ability to deal with concepts outside of physical reality. I've played Legend of the Five Rings for a number of years, but I realized that (despite what other experienced players often do), I needed a token in a particular place to represent one binary state for my board so I could immediately visualize whether it was a 0 or 1.

 

(I am sick and stuck in a hotel room, which is going to be my excuse for the length of this reply.)


Edited by Ariston, 30 July 2013 - 02:00 PM.


#4 Metropolis Games

Metropolis Games

    Member

  • Members
  • 51 posts

Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:57 PM

I don't use the click tokens as I can count to four! In a competition or when demoing I may use them for clarity for the opponent though.  I do use the credit tokens and, as I play "Noise" I tend to use them for virus tokens as well. I have occassionally used the Brain Damage tokens but they are generally not necessary as my opponent keeps tends to have a very clear handle on what my hand size is! Also, I don't tend to play "Stimhack" that much.

 



#5 evilidler

evilidler

    Member

  • Members
  • 193 posts

Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:49 AM

 I tend to forget trackers like the click tracker and first player tokens in other games, but the rest are useful. I'm sure at least one corp will be heavy on the brain damage effects in expansions :)



#6 kaffis

kaffis

    Member

  • Members
  • 82 posts

Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:49 AM

 I like the counters, they're thematic and make for an attractive and colorful play space. I don't find the credit/advancement tokens to be as cumbersome as others, perhaps because I'm used to playing a lot of board games.

 

I will admit that the click trackers are a little frustrating, because as the initial poster pointed out, there are multiple perfectly logical ways to play them (token over the action you're presently on, token on the number of actions you've completed, or even token on the number of actions left if you're really a rebel). I like the way they look, though, and there's nothing wrong with the card. I have a feeling that when my second set comes in, I'll likely use all 4 click tokens in the two sets myself when playing against others who own the game themselves, and "fill" my tracker card at the start of each turn, much like people would do with glass beads.



#7 TragicTheBlathering

TragicTheBlathering

    Member

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:12 AM

I do not use the click counters when I play my regular mates, but i do use them when teaching a new player or playing randoms.

I use all the other chits.

BUT I use 2x 10 sided dice for credits. I find the constant credit flux to be cumbersome. I find that 2x 10 sided dice, each a different colour, 1 for 1-9 the other for 10-90. Between them you can do 0-99. This way you can track cash with out having a massive pile of tokens taking up space and being a pain in the but.

I also TAP cards for cards like cyberfeeder. So i am not putting bits on and then off the card every tune. I also do this with NBN Identity and Cash Space.. i know you can only use 1 of the 2 bits.. i just tap when the card is empty… it isn't hard to count to 2.

I do use the advancement side of the token…



#8 Tokhuah

Tokhuah

    Member

  • Members
  • 480 posts

Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:51 AM

The counters look great and are thematic.  I use them.

I am still waiting for someone to ask for custom sleeves for the counters… 



#9 bloomkareninaishmael

bloomkareninaishmael

    Member

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:10 AM

 I really like the idea of using different colored glass beads to track clicks.  So far I've just been using my fingers, which, as you can imagine, has led to problems a couple of times.

 

It's not thematic even a little bit, but I really like to use my Chadwick Magic Brain Calculator for tracking credits.  It's basically a metal abacus with numerals in the place of beads.  It clearly displays how many credits you own, it won't change what number it shows if gets knocked around, it's durable, it's cheap, it's portable, and you don't have to worry about piles of counters falling off the table and getting lost. I use it anytime I have a board, card, or roleplaying game that uses a lot of money (power grid, acquire, monopoly, D&D, etc) and it works fantastic--so much easier to use than poker chips or counters or paper money.  The only downside is that it can be a little tricky to use.

 

http://www.gadgetvenue.com/magic-brain-calculator-built-a-long-long-time-ago-02215530/



#10 byronczimmer

byronczimmer

    Member

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:42 AM

Click Trackers: Not usually, except during Runner's Turn when they Run (which click was I on?) and Corp's turn when they score an Agenda mid-turn (on action 1 or 2).

Credit Tokens: Yes, very pretty, and flipping them to the white side has many uses:
As an Advancement Token
To represent [Recurring Credits] (flip them when they are used)
To represent Astroscript's free Advancement Token (it's what it will be used for)
To represent Nisei Mk II's ability
etc…

Red/Blue Tokens: Very useful for various things.  Common practice in my area is to represent MU with the red side (and place them in the very upper left corner of a card using that MU (we have many new players and it s a very useful memory device).  Blue side is pretty much everything else like virus tokens.

Tag Tokens: Very useful, we also put a tag token on Data Raven as the 'Data Raven Token' since that's eventually what it will be used for.

Brain Damage Token: I don't think these see ENOUGH use.

Bad Publicity Tokens: Corps have not embraced their evilness enough yet to have these get used a lot, but when it happens, they will be used.



#11 byronczimmer

byronczimmer

    Member

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:44 AM

And, I dislike any representation of credits that requires a different representation for Advancement Counters.

aka: Dice/Calculator/Abacus

It is so much easier to take the '1' token and flip it to the white side and drop it on the advanced card.



#12 jhaelen

jhaelen

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,038 posts

Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:21 AM

byronczimmer said:

Click Trackers: Not usually, except during Runner's Turn when they Run (which click was I on?)

Yup, that's the one situation when we were playing the CCG that we lost track of the 'click'-count, because resolving a run can take a long time.

There was a similar discussion over at BGG about the click-tracker. I've seen two suggestions I liked:

1) Have the Corp track for the Runner and vice-versa.

2) Place a 'click'-token on the play field where you used an action, e.g. if you installed a program, place a token there, if you took a cred, place one there, etc.

 



#13 bloomkareninaishmael

bloomkareninaishmael

    Member

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:15 AM

 That's a good point, byronczimmer.  It is pretty convenient to have the advancement on the same token as credits. Thinking on it, the counters they provide or beads are probably the best things to use for credits.



#14 Tokhuah

Tokhuah

    Member

  • Members
  • 480 posts

Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:22 PM

I saw something at a game store that I think people would like as an alternative to the click token (I admit it is the one token I find janky to use, and would prefer multiple click tokens for each action).  I have photos on my cell phone but I do not know how to transfer them into this thread.  Suggestions?



#15 juggler434

juggler434

    Member

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:04 PM

 I use all the tokens except the click trackers.  For the corp I don't use any click tracker since their actions are fast and easy to remember.  For the runner, since I play criminal, I use four of the characters from Infiltration as my team, and take one off every time I take an action.



#16 Metropolis Games

Metropolis Games

    Member

  • Members
  • 51 posts

Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:38 AM

juggler434 said:

For the runner, since I play criminal, I use four of the characters from Infiltration as my team, and take one off every time I take an action.

That's pretty cool - I love the idea that you have your criminal gang with you when pulling Bank Jobs etc.



#17 Tokhuah

Tokhuah

    Member

  • Members
  • 480 posts

Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:44 PM

Found a sample on-line:

 

A fourth red would be needed.



#18 prune

prune

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:18 AM

You can find plastic "gems" exactly like these super-cheap at craft and party supply stores.  They're the same tokens that ship with Ascension (that game uses big red and small white ones).



#19 Tokhuah

Tokhuah

    Member

  • Members
  • 480 posts

Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:05 PM

My local game store had them for .15 each so I picked up the 7 I would need and they have worked out great. 

Laying down some red a blue ice crystals, oh yea!



#20 profligate

profligate

    Member

  • Members
  • 90 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:17 PM

Much as I like the new tokens, nostalgia will undoubtedly force me to dig out the tokens/box from the old Netrunner Data Pack.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS