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Necron Weapons


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#1 AlphariusOmegon7

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:08 PM

 Ok, I was really happy to see the Necrons in ToF, but what with everything I only really just sat down to look at the stats.  Allow me to transcribe my thought processes.  

'Necrons!  Yeah.  Oh man, Canoptek Wraiths…players will not know what hit them.  Deathmark!  Wooh.  Oh look, Necron Lord, he's got a Warscythe…huh.  2d10+28?  Really?  His strength bonus must be ridicul- oh it's only 11.  Wait, what?  2d10+17 base damage, and the synaptic disintegrator only gets 1d10+6?  Let me check that, there's got to be a table back here somewhere…oh I did read it right.'

Seriously, wtf?  All the Necron melee weapons seem overpowered.  I can understand them being very good, say 2d10+7 base damage, but 2d10+17?  That's just ridiculous.  Is this right, or is it a typo, and has anyone come up with an official fix for it if so?  



#2 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:28 AM

AlphariusOmegon7 said:

Seriously, wtf?  All the Necron melee weapons seem overpowered.  I can understand them being very good, say 2d10+7 base damage, but 2d10+17?  That's just ridiculous.  Is this right, or is it a typo, and has anyone come up with an official fix for it if so?  

Warscythes in the wargame have always been exceptionally potent melee weapons - at present, they're effective tools for carving holes in tanks and buildings. Infantry typically do not survive getting hit by a warscythe.


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#3 AlphariusOmegon7

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:57 AM

 I get this.  I really do.  It's just that - it seems a little game breaking.  I understand it fits with the lore pretty well.  But in tt, a high powered Chaos Sorcerer or Chaos Lord of, say, Khorne could survive a blow from the thing.  

In this an Infamy 60+ character not devoted to Nurgle (so not much Sound Constitution) is going to get kited unless they have a force field.  Even then, they're probably screwed.  Really only Nurgle devoted characters can survive blows from one of these.  

Also, any character who gets hold of one can pretty much forget bad guys as a problem.  

I understand that you shouldn't run out to the corner store to get some sacrifices and bump into a Necron Overlord.  But when Elite Necron enemies have similarly overpowered weapons (Hyperphase Sword, Dispersion Shield…) it just becomes silly.  Especially when the equally fluff-and-TT powerful ranged weapons of the Necrons aren't anywhere near as full-powered.  



#4 AlphariusOmegon7

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:53 AM

 Look, I've done some thinking, and I do think the Necron Weapons should be powerful.  Just not THIS powerful.  I'm working on revised stats that I'm going to put up in House Rules if anyone's interested.  



#5 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:36 AM

AlphariusOmegon7 said:

Also, any character who gets hold of one can pretty much forget bad guys as a problem.  

Shouldn't necron weapons phase out?



#6 Exarkfr

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:10 PM

AlphariusOmegon7 said:

All the Necron melee weapons seem overpowered. 

Haven't they been greatly improved in ToF ?

In Hand of Corruption, Hyperphase Swords are 1d10+5 and Dispersion Shields are 1d5.

In ToF, they are 1d10+17 and 1d10+25.    Quite a leap in power…



#7 spaceratcatcher

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:17 PM

 I was also a little shocked by the Damage values on some of the Necron melee weapons, which is funny, because I wrote the Necron section for Tome of Fate.

Let me preface this by saying that I do not speak for FFG, and this is in no way an official answer, but simply my own opinion. That said, if I were to include Necrons in my Black Crusade campaign, I would modify the weapons like so:

Dispersion Shield: 1d10 I

Hyperphase Sword: 1d10+6 E

Rod of Covenant (Melee): 1d10+6 E

Void Blade: 1d10 R

Warscythe: 2d10+6 E

 

I would leave the Pen values and Qualities as-is.



#8 AlphariusOmegon7

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:07 PM

Spacerat, I wouldn't nerf them that much.  No1 is right - Necron weapons should be hilariously good.  Just not gamebreaking (which is what they are currently).  Dispersion Shield I agree - it should barely be a weapon, its primary trait being its very good special ability.  Hyperphase sword 1d10+7R, keeping everything else the same, maybe increasing pen by 1.  Void Blade 1d10+5R, +1 pen, everything else the same.  And Warscythe…I'm still working on that.

bogi, in ToF it gives rules for PCs getting their filthy little mitts on necron weapons, saying that some don't phase out, or you grab it from the dude and run.  



#9 spaceratcatcher

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:41 AM

AlphariusOmegon7 said:

Spacerat, I wouldn't nerf them that much.  No1 is right - Necron weapons should be hilariously good.  Just not gamebreaking (which is what they are currently).  Dispersion Shield I agree - it should barely be a weapon, its primary trait being its very good special ability.  Hyperphase sword 1d10+7R, keeping everything else the same, maybe increasing pen by 1.  Void Blade 1d10+5R, +1 pen, everything else the same.  And Warscythe…I'm still working on that.

bogi, in ToF it gives rules for PCs getting their filthy little mitts on necron weapons, saying that some don't phase out, or you grab it from the dude and run.  

I think that with the numerous Qualities attached to these weapons and the high SB of the Necrons wielding them, the stats I posted above should be sufficiently scary.

I guess it depends on how much you (dis)like your players. :-)

 

Finding Necron weapons that won't phase out could very well be the basis of an adventure.



#10 Herr-Ethic

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:09 AM

But Necron Weapons Should be mega overpowered. Hey, they conquered te galaxy with them once. Second - players do need tools for kiling greater deamons and such.



#11 Maelflux

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

It seems like they were changed in DW's The Outer Reach to the appx values that spaceratcatcher mentioned (ie. 1d10+6, Pen 6 for a hyperphase sword).

I am unsure how I feel about that, as it is just slightly better than a powersword, but probably impossible to get in any other quality, meaning that aGood/ Best version Power sword would be a better deal :/



#12 jack_px

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:11 PM

wow they really got improve in TOF then, because today i played a game and i sent some necron warriors against the heretics, the result, necrons couldnt do any damage to the space marine heretics, i mean the maximum damage they could do with their weapons was 18 with pen 3, and the space marine has his armor with 10 AP on body and 9 TB, so basically the necron warrior needed to roll at least a 9 to make 1 point of damage (without counting gauss of course)…, i mean cmon, where is the powerfull necron weapon there. Necron warriors are only little bugs against some space marines.



#13 Adversius Bael

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:14 AM

jack_px said:

wow they really got improve in TOF then, because today i played a game and i sent some necron warriors against the heretics, the result, necrons couldnt do any damage to the space marine heretics, i mean the maximum damage they could do with their weapons was 18 with pen 3, and the space marine has his armor with 10 AP on body and 9 TB, so basically the necron warrior needed to roll at least a 9 to make 1 point of damage (without counting gauss of course)…, i mean cmon, where is the powerfull necron weapon there. Necron warriors are only little bugs against some space marines.

And this is probably why the stats got turned up. 35,000 point characters (heretic or otherwise) can survive an amazing amount of punishment. I've seen a Nurgle Plaguemarine that giggled when the autocannons were brought out because his armour and toughness were so absurd, and a few sessions ago I watched a Blood Angel with a Jump Pack and two Lightning Claws and a Dark Angel with a Storm Bolter and Powersword just annihilate a brood of 12 genestealers (meant to be taken on by the whole squad, not just two guys) while sustaining a mere 7 points of damage between them - not because of rules abuse or misinterpretations, but because of being that powerful and having good tactical moves.



#14 Ansalagon

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 05:21 PM

 Also, any character who gets hold of one can pretty much forget bad guys as a problem. 

 

Well, in my point of view, the big killing weapons should only be in the hand of a Lord... And while some necron weapons don't phase out, they do stop working (heck it is stated in the necron codex that these weapons don't even have triggers) so i wouldn't worry about your group getting something to kill everything... Also A warscythe is a status symbol (at least the Lord's one) and is bound to phase out if the lord does... and grapping one is likely to make it get incorporal where you try to grap it... or mean you get hit by the energy field and most likely lose a hand... If you use Lychguards i would probably nerf it... But a lord IS - or at least CAN be- every bit as dangerous as a space marine chapter master, a hive tyrant or a greater deamon, and that should be reflected in the books too.. also he should be hard to get to too..

 

These are not the kind enemies one goes to fight en masse... not without lots of soldiers, at least that how i see it :)



#15 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

Just have the damn things phase out. They are always described as doing so.



#16 Annaamarth

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:14 AM

I'm with Bogi, for the most part.

 

I hate not rewarding creativity, so if your players get creative and you think they actually managed to nab a working warscythe, I'd say go with the 2d10+7 variant- but double its base damage on any target larger than hulking, and give it felling (4).  The felling allows it to threaten Marines and the double damage allows it to open up tanks, carve apart Defilers, and eviscerate Bloodthirsters... hopefully without becoming truly gamebreaking in any of those cases.  I think a Nurgle-aligned Terminator should still be able to tank a few hits from that thing, I don't think it'll oneshot a Leman Russ and it can't be lightning attacked. 


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#17 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:36 PM

wow they really got improve in TOF then, because today i played a game and i sent some necron warriors against the heretics, the result, necrons couldnt do any damage to the space marine heretics, i mean the maximum damage they could do with their weapons was 18 with pen 3, and the space marine has his armor with 10 AP on body and 9 TB, so basically the necron warrior needed to roll at least a 9 to make 1 point of damage (without counting gauss of course)…, i mean cmon, where is the powerfull necron weapon there. Necron warriors are only little bugs against some space marines.

 

Why without counting Gauss? Gauss is what makes them powerful. This is like saying... flame weapons, only without counting Flame. Lascannons, only without counting 5d10+10 damage.

 

Gauss flayers are S4 AP5 in TT, the same as a bolter. Which is about exactly what they are in BC, only with Gauss instead of Tearing (to which it is similar).

 

They are not terrifying weapons (well more than a bolter is) except en masse against vehicles or other heavily armoured targets.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 11 December 2013 - 10:10 PM.





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