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#1 Fett85

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:16 PM

 I have only played a couple of small games so far, but i'm noticing that its pretty darn tough to kill an x-wing.  I have just been trying to get several ties in close to hammer the same x-wing at the same time, but the shields and R2d2 fixing the shields seems to really make it a tough job.

I was just wondering if anyone had some tips on properly using tie fighters? Any pointers would be greatly appreciated

Thanks, Aaron



#2 LSUedd

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 06:25 PM

I have no idea!! It really seems the X-wing is too over powered, but then again im new to the game.



#3 RykanFrost

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:50 PM

Playing the TIE Fighters can indeed have its challenges, however X-wings are not indestructible.  Remember to play to the TIE Fighter's strengths: speed and maneuverability.  Close the distance to your opponent as quickly as possible, you probably wont be able to avoid being target locked but if you can get up in the x-wing's face quickly enough you might deny them a proton torpedo shot.  Once you're in a position where you and your opponents ships are head-to-head at close range you can start to exploit the maneuverability of the TIE to your advantage.  I prefer to split my TIE fighter's up after an over-shoot situation, having 1 execute a koiogran turn (which your opponent will more than likely have to do as well to get back into firing position) and having 1 start turning back towards the x-wing. This will (hopefully) force the x-wing to have to commit to attacking 1 TIE fighter and maneuvering into the most favorable firing position while the other TIE moves into position behind the x-wing.  Once a  TIE fighter is behind an x-wing try not to get greedy, getting into Range 1 for bonus attack dice sounds great but staying farther back will widen your firing arc (especially if you utilize the Barrel Roll action to full effect in case your crafty opponent makes a maneuver you didn't anticipate) and allow you more opportunities to whittle down those pesky shields!  These are just a few of the useful lessons i've learned in my short time with the game, mostly with the quickplay rules. The further ships, pilots, and upgrades add plenty more layers to the strategy you may chose to employ but the basics of using the TIE fighters doesn't change.  Also keep in mind that any game that involves rolling dice involves a lot of luck so even the greatest strategy wont help you if your opponent rolls like an absolute monster!

~Someone who has sent many an unwitting Academy Pilot to their death.



#4 Highball

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:10 AM

While what RykanFrost says is true, I would also add that the Imperial's other great strength is numbers.  I have been using multiple ships to good effect.  In my last 100 point battle, while my opponent used the dreaded Luke/R2 combo to keep healing, he was no match for Darth, Backstabber, and multiple 12 point TIE fighters.

My opponent, as expected focused on Darth, which I used as a decoy by having him turn away when it would be expected to move in for an attack.  This allowed my squadron of TIEs to repeatedly get 3-5 in range for shots on X-Wings and the one Y-Wing on the team.  You have to play a little more patient and set your expectations at achieving 1 damage from each TIE attack (statistically the expected outcome is slightly below 1).  If each shot gets you one damage you are doing great!  If 2-3 succeed your opponent can't heal fully before the next attack.

Just keep with shorter moves to stay in range as long as possible and concentrate fire on one target at a time.  Also, Darth had expert handling (i think that was the right one) that allowed him to remove target locks, which furhter frustrated my opponent. When they changed tactics and went after the TIEs, Darth changes tactics and swoops in with his own target lock and cluster bombs to punish his son!



#5 kaffis

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 05:26 AM

 I'm getting close to the point where I'm ready to house-rule that R2-D2 can't be used in a game without alternate objectives. In a straight up dogfight, TIEs just struggle too much to lay on more than one point of damage a turn.

 

I'm not quite ready to do so, however, because I *am* still basing this only on 50-75 point games while I wait for my Internet order to come in. As such, I've only got a core set and one of each expansion, giving me only 4 ships on the Imperial side to work with. So perhaps outnumbering 6-3 will prove to be more effective at retaining the numerical advantage against an offensive juggernaut like Wedge long enough to apply those numbers effectively enough to neutralize R2-D2 with focus fire.



#6 AngryMojo

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:27 PM

 After playing a few games, I think the Imperials are much better served by a combination of harassment and mob tactics to take on the rebels.  Focus fire is extremely important if R2-D2 is on the table, but only for that model.  An X-Wing can take a grand total of five damage, only two more than a TIE and with a lower Agility.  Considering you can very easily outnumber your opponent by a 2:1 ratio, it's not difficult to ping the slower X-Wings to death over the course of several turns.

 

The biggest thing I've learned is the importance of evasion, and knowing when to evade and when to focus.  I think that's the biggest way around the shields of the rebels.  Of course, if your positioning winds up well enough and you run into this situation it's pretty much game.

Three academy pilots in a row, all evading.  Backstabber where he belongs, in the Y-Wing's side arc.  I had tagged a point of damage on both Rebel ships earlier in the game, but this turn saw both of them out of action.  Use that 1-distance attack bonus whenever you can, and don't be afraid to sacrifice a TIE to down a rebel.  They can't trade ship-to-ship with you and come out on top.



#7 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:36 PM

 The game is still really new and the rebels have it easier when you first start out until people get more comfortable with the game and tactics/combos. X wings have shields and better attack capabilities and so for beginners will be easier to use. Y wings are going to be super hard to take down right now until people start using their movement advantage to greater effect. A Y wing is a lumbering piece of crap compared to an advanced Tie  but it has big shields and big hull points so if everyone is just trying to fly straight at each other trying to get into range 1 as soon as possible. But with barrel rolls, better speed and maneouvrability, etc, getting a Tie into preferred positions against a Y wing is quite easy, especially when you should have aa numbers advantage if the rebel player is using Luke or Wedge with R2 (which everyone seems to be pointing at). There is only one R2D2 on the table and at 100 pts which will be the standard if not higher very soon, if you just use your speed to jump the other rebels, you can do well. He can't just keep all his ships together because then they will inevitably get into each others way (remember to put asteroids all around the table) and will allow you to use your superior agililty and spped to "circle the wagons".

Barrel rolls are soo good… If you are not jumping into weird angles up tight then using barrel rolls to give yourself the firing angle without letting the opponent have one you are missing out. Of course this all depends on the pilot skill and who goes first.

This having been said, I have 100 points of each and just played a 100 point game tonight using rebels. I used 3 x wings and a Y wing with Wedge (no R2 though). I smashed him hard and didn't lose one single fighter. BUT, he killed one of his own ships by crashing into not one, but two different asteroids, lol. Plus, he only had 4 ships to my 4 ships. He had 2 advanced Ties, one was Vader and one was Stele, then 2 Ties but one of them was Beast I think, I don't remember and the game is still too new for me to remember all the pilots he used etc,  but I remember he used Heroes all over the place and then just flew straight at me and started smashing into asterroids and stuff… so while I put him away quite easily with only hull damage to 2 of my x wings, it was more due to him being a total noob ( we both were but he looked the part) and I would have done things very very differently and I definitely wouldn't have been trying to shave tight corners around asteroids trying to be greedy and get into range 1 firing position every chance I had. He was very predictable and you shouldn't be predictable when you are an Imp….. Soontir Fel would have been ashamed of these pilots, lol.



#8 Hrathen

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:54 PM

 After wedge and Darth Vader the best pilot abilities, in my opinion belong to the TIE named pilots.  And they are still pretty cheap.  And an academy pilot is only 12 points that is less than half Luke's cost and if someone has swarm tactics nearby their low skill doesn't matter in the shooting phase.

Also, he isn't strictly in a TIE but Darth Vader with Concusion missiles can really mess up an x-wing even with r2.  

Another stratagy to use against Luke with r2 would be to leave him for last.  You probably won't kill all his ships if you play with any sort of time limit, and every turn where Luke is undamaged is a turn where r2 doesn't do him any good.

Killing any one with r2 will require you to get more quality shots rather than just lots of them.


Putting an end to this distructive conflict and bringing order to the galaxy.

#9 AngryMojo

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:41 PM

Hrathen said:

Another stratagy to use against Luke with r2 would be to leave him for last. 

This speaks to another general strategy: target priority.  As a general rule, if a model winds up with a lot of offensive power or disruption capability with no major increases to defense, I'll go after that one first.  Wedge is a perfect example, he hits hard and isn't any more durable than a standard X-Wing.  Luke is really difficult to take out, but doesn't hit any harder than other X-Wings.  Wedge is the primary target between these two.



#10 Shanturin

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:28 PM

Well, after three of four games in a row yesterday my friend was REALLY mad at Luke/R2-D2 combo. He was playing:

 

Darth Vader (with Concussion Missiles and Swarm Tactics)

Howlrunner (with Swarm Tactis)

Night Beast

Backstabber

Academy Pilot

 

against mine:

Luke Skywalker (with R2-D2 and Determination)

Garven Dreis (with Proton Torpedoes and R2-F2)

Dutch Vander (with Ion Cannon, Proton Torpedoes, R5-K6)

 

Only one of these games was close, when around turn four-five he managed to take down Vander and brought Luke down to one Hull left. Unfortunately for him, at the end of the same turn he was down to damaged Howlrunner and Academy P. versus Luke and Greis with only one shield down. The game ended two turns later with Luke having both shields up again.

 

In each game he was focusing on taking down Luke early, yet he never succeded. There was even a game, which Luke ended unscratched after concentreted fire from Vader's missiles, Night Beast and Backstabber, all with Focus. Certainly, the huge part of this outcome was his really bad, and my extremely awesome dice rolls, but Luke with R2D2 seems close to udestructable. While playing right you can get yourself around 6 extra shields each game, which essentialy is another ship!

 

Another huge factor was Dutch with R5-K6. All those Target Locks! Plus, hitting Vader with Ion Cannon after he executed Koiogran and doing the same following turn is pretty cool - he had 3 turns in a row, where Vader had a stress token on him…

 

I think that the most grevious mistakes my friend did in all his games, were:

A) Focusing on Luke early on. Firing at Range 3, only the Concussion Missiles have chance on seriously damge him. It would have been better for him, if he chose to destroy Vander first, who can be quite reliably hit by a TIE even at Range 3. Actually, Vander was my best pilot, acquiring Locks almost every turn (I avoided making red manouvers with him as much as I possibly could) and making Vader a sad eyeball drifting in the space.

B) His setup was like: 

edge------------AcademyPilot/Howlrunner---------------space------------NightBeast/Vader---------------space-------------Backstabber---------edge

Since he has an Initiative I was able to set all my forces in fron of Backstabber, which resulted in duo Academy/Howlrunner was reaching the actual fight zone one turn later. So during first turn of combat it was two TIE's and Vader versus all of my ships, Vander with Target Lock, Dreis with both Target Lock AND Focus (firing first so he could use Focus and give it to Vander) and Luke with Focus. In each game either Night Beast or Backstabber ended up trashed into spacedust.

Had he deployed his forces closer to each other, he might have had chance to fire from all his ships in the first combat turn, possibly taking one of my ships down or at least fill my ships with some annoying crit effects.

C) Not focusing on single target. What's the diffrence if all my ships are damaged, while they're all still flying and shooting?

 

I have to agree, that the Empire has higher learning curve than Rebels. The fosus on superior number and manouverability, which is certainly harder to utilize to fullest than a few slower but more powerful ships (especially Y-wing with Ion Cannon, that's thing is silly good and easy to use). Like the game itself, flying Imperials is easy to learn, hard to master.


May my blade be sharp. May I sculpt a new fate for my enemies.


#11 Docj7296

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:02 PM

 Flank the xwing stay out of it firing arc and get a tie advanced. It works…Luke died in my last game

Best Doc J

 

 



#12 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:28 PM

 Luke is nowhere near indestructable. With the extra speed and manouevrability of the Empire and the fact that they will usually have superior numbers and they all have barrel roll, it is ludicrous that they should be crying foul about R2D2. Seriously, Vader has a great ship with shields, superior agility, 2 actions per turn with the ability to barrel roll and still use another action, etc…. and he should have lots of backup. I mean seriously… if you can't get up close to luke, then use a barrel roll to get out of his line of fire while still having line of fire to him then you are not playing right. And then you have other pilots that should be able to be in his flank as well. Vader attacks before Luke and can take down a shield point, then another attack from the flank could possibly take down another, but even if it doesn't, Luke has no one to attack and now next turn to get the shield back has to use a green maneouvre which seriously hampers his options and telegraphs what he will likely do next movement allowing yourself to choose a maneouvre that takes advantage of him again. Seriously, Luke with R2 becomes very predictable if you peck away at his shields and force him to use green moves. It only takes that one good. One good roll from Vader using concussion missiles and Marksmanship (especially if you already had a target lock previously and used a barrel roll to get out of his firing arc so he can't attack you back) and Luke is in serious trouble…. then he has to get his shield up next turn… ok, great, now I know that you are limited to green x wing moves and so next turn I can try to bring more guns to bear against you….

… Luke or Wedge with R2 is a really good useful combo but it is not indestructable by any stretch of the imagination. In a 50 point game against Luke/R2 and a Y wing, I smoked Luke with Vader and a skill 4 Tie fighter and then the Y wing who had 1 hull point left went down two turn later from Vader… and my Tie fighter's last hull point was lost by hitting an asteroid as I risked flying straight though an asteroid to get into a flank position on the Y wing and have Vader and the Tie open up on the Y wing and finish the game. But in the end, Vader vs a Y wing is a horrible mismatch… Y wings are freakin boats and an advanced Tie can fly circles around them and with their low number of agility dice, their 3 shields and 5 hull doesn't last long when they are consistantly being out manouevred.



#13 bullyboy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:25 AM

for Rebels, I want to play with Wedge being supported by Biggs with R2F2 and determination. Biggs should soak up a lot fire allowing Wedge to be his destructive self :)



#14 Baphomet69

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:21 AM

 Anyone tried a maxed swarm of 8 academy TIEs concentrating on one target at a time yet? Is that even a possible squad? Playing my first games later today.



#15 DavicusPrime

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

 Okay…  I've been playing against my son (age 9) and I've been playing Imps from day one.  So far I have never lost.  Granted he's still learning, but against wedge and the Luke/R2 combos, my TIEs take them out messily.

TIEs are most potent enmass and in close range.  Don't ever expect long range fire to do much, that's where the X-Wings outgun you.  Getting the extra die in range band 1 is what you need to really make the damage stick.

If you're using Mithel and Backstabber, you need to be outside of their fire acr and inside range band 1.  Both get 4 dice to attack if you get inside Range 1 and if Backstabber stays clear of the firing arc.  With 4 dice each, you should strip off those shields and put some hull damage on it before R2 can do much.  If you've got a TIE-Adv with missiles, that's the perfect time to use the missile as a finishing blow.  This is why I've started taking a Tempest Squadron TIE-Adv in my lists.  Cost effective, and you want him shooting last so the rest of your ships can soften up your designated target.

Typically, I lose a TIE by the end of turn 2 as we close.  After that my TIEs get in behind and/or attack from multiple angles using barrel rolls or evasion actions to avoid getting hit back.  Thats when Mithel and Backstabber start chewing things up.  No X can shrug off multiple 3 and 4 die attacks for long even if they can recover shields.

Don't dispare, The rebels are far from invincible.  I long to fight a player with a little better tactical know-how than my son, but for now, he has definitely gotten better in the space of four games.

-DavicusPrime



#16 DavicusPrime

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 12:48 PM

Another thing I have been doing is always setting my ships out in the beginning in a cluster.  Right when they get into the edge of range 3 I have them split off in opposite directions and take evasion maneuvers.  Then I wait to see which rebel ships go after each group.  If they all go after the same group, the second group of TIEs come around and start hunting the hunters.

If they go after both groups I was successful at drawing them into the opposite groups guns by just whipping around and heading for each other.  Created a beautiful crossfire.  

Never underestimate the power of the barrel roll and evasion actions.  Once your able to put multiple attacks on a single ship in range band 1 there isn't much but dumb luck that will save them.  

-DavicusPrime



#17 Baphomet69

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:37 AM

 We played several games yesterday. We started with a couple quick-starts, a couple 'standard' core set games, and then squad building. The Imps won every round. I started playing Imps, but then we started switching off, as I didn't want my opponent to get discouraged and write the game off. For the 100 point game, I had 4 Academy Pilots and 4 Obsidian Squad Pilots. He had 3 x-wings and two y-wings with some upgrades - I'm not sure which. Most of my ships had damage by the end, but I didn't lose one ship. Sounds like poor tactics on his part, but he normally plays armor-based games, and in those, his tactics are sound.

It ended up feeling lop-sided in the Imperials favor. Granted, I stayed up close in such tight range that nearly every turn I had at least one ship collision.



#18 DavicusPrime

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:06 AM

The only way to run 100pt game with 3 X's and 2 Y's wouldn't allow you to take anything but a single 1pt droid.  The Y's would die without making a dent and the X's would be so out gunned that they would have to be very good and/or lucky to beat down a full 8 TIEs.

Y's without Ion Cannons are targets.  Give them Ion Cannons and they will wreck the Imp's plans.  My son learned quick to just buzz around with them getting target locks and zapping the closest TIE.  It forced my TIE's to burn their actions on evasion when ever he was in range.  After a couple rounds of losing a hull point and getting knocked off target for your next attack run, your TIEs start to fear what those Y's can do to them.  It leaves less TIEs for the X's to have to deal with and softens them up for when they finally end up in your X's sights.

If he dropped an X and gave the Y's Ion Cannons and used the remaining 11pts to load up on droids and maybe a Torp or two and his list would have been a bit more potent.  With the Y's plinking upto 2 TIEs a turn, that would take a little pressure off the X's.  With that many TIE's the better droid for one of the X's would be the one that increases the Agility of the ship for the round.  They will be having to dodge a lot of incoming fire.  Anything that gives you an edge in damage avoidance will help last long enough to whittle the TIEs down to a manageable number.  R2 could be helpful, but with that many incoming shots, you're bound to be taking hull damage before you replenish the shields.  Plus with that many attackers swarming him, taking a green maneuver will leave him in his attackers' fire arcs longer.  If you're pulling a lot of Koiograns you'll be taking Greens to clear the Stress Tokens anyway, so perhaps that isn't that big a deal.

My one game as rebs turned out a little different than I planned.  I had a Red Sqdron pilot that I totally misjudged a maneuver that got him killed.  I was gambling that he was going to move further with his ships than he did and I ended up koiogranning right in front of a pair of TIEs.  So if you fly right into two TIE's Fire Arcs at Range Band 1, then turn so that you can't shoot them in return is VERY BAD.

Luckily I was able to squeak out a win with Luke and R2 against 2 TIEs and a TIE Adv though Luke had only 1 hull point left.

My conclusion: TIEs are NOT overly powerful nor are they weak.  Luke + R2 is not invincible nor are they push overs.  You just have to figure out how to use them and/or counter them with what you've got to work with.

-DavicusPrime



#19 MilesD37

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:08 PM

I THOUGHT I HAD IT!

so far my friends and i have played 5 games… and the rebels have won them all… in game 1 i was luke, and my buddy game me a run for my money… then i got expansions (total, 3 X-Wings, 1 Y-WIng, 4 TIE, and 1 TIE Advanced… more next payday)… games 2-4 the imps were slaughtered… but not tonight… i almost had them…

I was Imps = Vader, Howlrunner, Mahler Mithell, 2 Academy Pilots… vader had concussion/swarm tactics, howl and mauler had swarm as well…

he had Luke, Wedge, and a 8 skill ywing pilot… r2d2 on luke, ion cannon and another astromech…

1st round, movement in

2nd round vader. mauler, and 1 academy pilot attack the ywing (swarm gave them all 9pilot in combat) then wedge hit howl for 1- then howl runner and the other academy pilot got luck hits (at range one) and destroyed wedge…

 

now i'm getting cocky… thought it was in the bag… woulda been too… if in my excitement i didn't place the wrong manuver on the wrong pilots… well… 3 of my 5 ships overlapped… vader and mauler didn't, but still weren't any use… then got hit with ion on ship, and it was all down hill from there…

 

next play will be better, i'll have another advanced/ywing and another core (cheapest way to get 2 ties and an xwing…) so i'll really have a better squad base.. (i'm thinking 2 TIE advanced and 4 TIEs)



#20 Daveydavedave

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:43 AM

Baphomet69 said:

 Anyone tried a maxed swarm of 8 academy TIEs concentrating on one target at a time yet? Is that even a possible squad? Playing my first games later today.

I played against an 8 Tie swarm and got absolutely smoked.  I was playing Luke with the +1 agility droid, Wedge with marksman, R2D2 and Torps, and the basic gold squadron y-wing with torps, an astromech and the ion cannon.

Y-wing died first turn before shooting at all.

Luke took hits from all 8 ties like a boss, giving Wedge enough time to kill 2.  Then Luke died.  Wedge killed 1 or 2 more, I forget exactly how many were left at the end, but it was brutal.

 

3 beefed out alliance pilots vs the 8 tie swarm is rough for sure.  I'm already looking at 4 ship alliance builds with lots of rookie pilots to try and get more hit points and more guns on the table.  

 

Quantity has a quality all of its own in this game.






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