Jump to content



Photo

Preventing Divinations


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Regis Eisen

Regis Eisen

    Member

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:43 AM

I'm part of a group that's running around in the expanse, and numerous factions in game (including ours) has use of the divination discipline and the augury/divining the future/scrying type stuff that is available.  Are there in game methods to mess with other's divinations?  I've tried to find something on the forums, but haven't, and I wasn't sure what was in the fluff.  I know blanks can work, but I question their effectiveness in preventing divinations as they still act on the future.  Help is appreciated, and everything, from the Holy to the Xenos to Sorcery is on the table.



#2 Adeptus-B

Adeptus-B

    Part-Time Super Villian

  • Members
  • 1,870 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:11 AM

 

I had a similar problem in my Dark Heresy campaign, with the party's psyker making extensive use of the power Dowse to eliminate the need to do much 'investigating'. I put out a call on the Forums for ways to thwart this power; here is that discusion:

http://www.fantasyfl...=3&efidt=645488

Hopefully something there will be useful to you. In the end, I just pulled something out of my butt: the target the party was looking for had a Penetant Psyker (from the 40K Codex: Witchunters) in tow, who absorbed psychic energy directed at the target, in effect drastically increasing the Threshold needed to get the power to work…



#3 Cultadium

Cultadium

    Member

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:18 AM

Tzeentch could certainly prevent them fully but he'd be more likely to give false readings. Warp storm interference would be perfectly acceptable as well since it could cut off that sector from the Emporer. The necron artifacts that cut off the warp (pylons) could work. Mostly though I think you just have to give vague answers.



#4 JuankiMan

JuankiMan

    Member

  • Members
  • 256 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:27 AM

Rules as written, I don't think there's anything to actively mess up another psyker's divinations. However, you should differentiate divination from scrying.

Divination looks at the future, which means that you're likely changing it just for the fact that you're looking at it. If several diviners look at the future they will mess each other's divinations because the very act of seeing the future will influence their and their allies actions and mess with the other diviner's predictions. I weep for you. This kind of divination is an absolute pain in the ass for the GM.

A diferent form of divination is scrying, where the diviner uses his powers to look at something or somebody. This is in real-time however, so if you're scrying a psyker he may roll Psyniscience to notice he's being watched and act accordingly. 

A null, on both cases is a great impediment. You cannot scry him directly or anyone near him and, as far as I know, the fate of nulls is not written in the Warp, so that makes any divination wildly unpredictable because you're foreseeing a future that doesn't acknowledge his actions. Also sorcery, being the stuff of the Warp and therefore infinite in scope an possibility, is only limited by the GMs imagination in what it can or cannot accomplish.



#5 JuankiMan

JuankiMan

    Member

  • Members
  • 256 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:27 AM

Duplicated post. Sorry.



#6 Regis Eisen

Regis Eisen

    Member

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:03 AM

 Thanks, that's all helpful.  I'm actually our diviner, and have taken to casting many different reading with different questions to get at the results.  The information about how the blanks work, how they don't even influence the warp at all as far as their fates go, is very very helpful, as is the penitent psyker.

I'm playing an Ordo Hereticus Psyker Interrogator (long, but fun story) who's out in the Expanse working with a RT and his crew.  With Eldar factions and Chaos sorcerers, we all have our methods to figure out where stuff that we want is, even though the results are different.

Our DM does a good job of making sure that the divinations aren't freebe info, and they are always cryptic and could be different, since everything is at the time of the divination, not anything else.  Its been interesting, but I want to do what I can to disrupt others from checking on us.  Looks like I might just need to put in my request for a Black Ship and start an outfit of combat blanks.



#7 Alasseo

Alasseo

    Member

  • Members
  • 784 posts

Posted 15 September 2012 - 04:16 AM

 Direct scrying and divination tricks can be countered with standard anti-psyker techniques- the target can have psykers of his own deliberately muddy the aether around him; nulls (which has obviously been covered); a standard psy-blocking amulet (or sufficiently powerful hexagrammic wards, or a good layer of psycurium cladding in the walls) will render him/it invisible to direct scrying (depending on GM's discretion, that may be "can't find him at all", "get an image, but it's just static", "only get an approximate location", or just raise the threshold for power actually working). This doesn't necessarily prevent a canny psyker from working round that, particularly if they can get a rough direction/range (just use Far Sight or similar to view the location rather scrying via Dowse, for example).

Divination techniques are harder to block. Standard anti-psyker tactics should hide your involvement, but they aren't going to hide what's going to happen, unless you can think of some way to muddy the water. I borrowed a trick from Dune for this- the actions of a prescient or precognisant person are hidden from anyone trying to discern the future, at all points along the timeline from when they gained their prescience. And this blindness to other precogs applies to anyone with them. Essentially, if you can see the future, you're capable of altering it as you see fit. If you can alter it, then other people trying to predict it can't tell what you're doing.
So, someone wanting to have themselves hidden from Diviners just needs a Diviner of their own to follow them round. Note again that this doesn't stop someone from Divining the future indirectly, but any actions directly taken by someone so cloaked (and the direct results of such actions) are effectively a blind spot


There is no right, and no wrong, but having the bigger stick makes it so...


#8 Regis Eisen

Regis Eisen

    Member

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:41 AM

What is interesting in our situation is that the way that the divinations are revealed has been interesting.  Nothing is ever clear, and because I am a sanctioned psyker/Interrogator on his way to Inquisitor, I use the Tarot for my readings, and this influences how the GM describes things.  There are clues, for sure, but nothing is ever clear for me at all.  I don't know about the Eldar, or how the Chaos people in the game are doing their methods, but I would assume that it is equally vague for them.  That said, we have seen each other, and are all using the oracles/farseers/divining as we go, which affect and change each other's visions.  It is very interesting.

 

I will say, I'm going to need null assassins.

 

Anyway, another possible question, but are there ways for a psyker/faithful servant to engage in rituals that would guard against these things?  I know that sorcery can do so, but didn't know if there were imperial sanctioned methods.  It seems odd to me that, with the creed, the psykana doesn't have its own history and allows itself to be considered uncontrollable and dangerous.  We never get that side of things, even with all the Inquisitorial agents that have psychic potential.



#9 Blood Pact

Blood Pact

    Member

  • Members
  • 846 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:20 PM

There are warding symbols against daemons (Renegade's Handboo, natch), it stands to reason that there could be certain similar methods that can make skrying more difficult. Probably end up being a Forbidden Lore test of some kind.

Knowledge of them could similarly be suppressed, as the runes to ward against daemons can be used for binding them, which the Inquisition is obviously against. Methods of blocking divination might be similarly suppressed, in addition to it already being occult in nature.



#10 Bassemandrh

Bassemandrh

    Member

  • Members
  • 188 posts

Posted 22 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

The problem with all the anti psyker ideas here is that they would also work against you if you try to use divination in that area (be it near a null or in a warded room etc).

Going to invent something here: Maybe you could be granted permission to cast a fake future spell on youself. That is, if someone tries to use divination on you they recieve the fake future instead of the actual future. Of course there would be a chance for anyone to notice that this is tampered with and could see through the spell.



#11 Thebigjul

Thebigjul

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:35 AM

For the GM the divination power is not a danger.

What the psyker is seing? What will come to pass if the players act (or their ennemy) or is it the world if nothing is done by those seing the future?

And if numerous people are looking forward in the time how their view alter the divin ation. Are they already in action, are they waiting for an event to occur before interferring with the time line of events?

Short answer as long one, divination power is pretty useless.



#12 Regis Eisen

Regis Eisen

    Member

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:59 AM

 Reading the future within the game is currently fairly straight forward.  You have the Augury power, which gives you only specific information (greatest threat to your goal, a certain number of other factors in play, your greatest tool/weapon/asset towards that goal, and a cryptic one sentence clue, depending on your level of success), and Divining the Future, which is faster (one minute vs. 30) and can grant you a number of +10's to rolls to toss out to people.  

 

Much of it depends on what questions you ask, and what your intent is.  Within our game, the divinations are both practical (because why wouldn't you gather all information possible?) and also thematic and fun (the GM does a wonderful job of painting a terrifying picture - its never flowers and happiness).  In the end, the powers of divination are great tools for the telling of the story, more than anything else.  And, because divination using the Emperor's Tarot is thought to be the Emperor himself speaking to the Seer, very thematic.  My character sees the clues presented as signs and guideposts, rather than literal truth, much as a hunter would track and animal.  

 

I'll be using blanks, and getting a good stable of null assassins and other types to send of to do various things.  Its about the only way that I can think of, with what has been here on this thread. 






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS