Jump to content



Photo

Rules Queries


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Volkazz

Volkazz

    Member

  • Members
  • 35 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:48 AM

As I am interpreting things based on the CCG, how does the LCG deal with:

 

 1. Two Mediums in play - each with no virus counters.

     Run R&D; each gains a counter

     How many cards are accessed?

     I believe the answer is two.

2. Priority Requisition is scored (rez ignoring all costs) - Archer is rezzed (additional cost: forfeit an agenda)

    Does the corp have to forfeit an agenda?

    I believe not.

 

V.

   



#2 DefconX

DefconX

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 02:52 AM

Volkazz said:

 

 1. Two Mediums in play - each with no virus counters.

     Run R&D; each gains a counter

     How many cards are accessed?

     I believe the answer is two.

 

 

Medium reads:

Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium.
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.

If there were no virus counters on the Mediums when the run started, the new virus counters would do nothing and you would only get to access a single card still. If the Mediums each had one virus counter before you started the run, I would say that you get to access three cards, one additional card for each Medium. Each Medium adds its own effect when you access cards and adds to the total cards you can access.

It is important to note that a run is considered successful before you actually start accessing cards (from the rune example on page 19 of the rule book) so the Mediums get new counters right before cards are accessed. (I'm pretty sure that is what you were assuming in your example, I just wanted to be clear for others)

**Edit: I just realised that you may have thought that the Mediums were checking each others counters to come up with a total, hence why you suggested two cards would be accessed. When a card references its own name it is only referring to itself and not any other copies of the same card (see "Self-referential language" page 21, core rule book). Each copy of Medium, therefore, counts its own counters separately and adds to the number of accessed cards accordingly.

 

Volkazz said:

 

2. Priority Requisition is scored (rez ignoring all costs) - Archer is rezzed (additional cost: forfeit an agenda)

    Does the corp have to forfeit an agenda?

    I believe not.

 

 

I would agree that you do not have to forfeit an agenda. Forfeiting an agenda is listed as an additional cost and Priority Requisition says to ignore ALL costs, not just the credit cost.



#3 prune

prune

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:26 AM

DefconX said:

 

Volkazz said:

 

 1. Two Mediums in play - each with no virus counters.

     Run R&D; each gains a counter

     How many cards are accessed?

     I believe the answer is two.

 

 

Medium reads:

Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium.
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.

If there were no virus counters on the Mediums when the run started, the new virus counters would do nothing and you would only get to access a single card still. If the Mediums each had one virus counter before you started the run, I would say that you get to access three cards, one additional card for each Medium. Each Medium adds its own effect when you access cards and adds to the total cards you can access.

 

 

There are two confusing things here, let's take the more basic one first.  Look at the timing diagram on page 33.

At step 4 :

  1. Opportunity for paid abilities, rezzing things [not applicable here]
  2. The run is considered to be SUCCESSFUL.  Trigger any abilities resulting from successful run. [at this point, every Medium gets 1 counter]
  3. Access cards…

So, at step 4.3, the Medium cards have already received their virus tokens.  If  there is just one Medium in play, then it's simple : 1 card if 1 counter, 2 cards if 2 counters, 3 cards if 3 counters, etc.  I'll get to the multiple Mediums thing in a second post, they've covered that pretty well over on the Board Game Geek forums.



#4 prune

prune

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:35 AM

For the Multiple Mediums question, look at the following from the rulebook :

p 21 : Self-referential Language : Unless otherwise noted, a card with text that refers to its own card title only refers to itself and does not refer to other copies of cards with that title.

And here's Medium again :

Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium.
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.

So, when the run is successful, each copy of Medium gets a counter. 

Then when you access, each copy of Medium looks at how many counters it has.  In the original question, you started with 0 before the run, so now each one has one counter.  Each copy of Medium only looks at the counter that are on itself, based on the rule above, and so the Mediums don't generate any additional cards.

Next successful run, now each Medium gets an additional counter (up to 2 each); then you access; each Medium generates an additional card to access; and so the total number of cards accessed is 3.

Next time it would be 5, and so on, until you win, are killed by accessing 2-3 Snares, or the Corp wises up and spends a turn to wipe your virus counters.



#5 prune

prune

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:43 AM

Volkazz said:

2. Priority Requisition is scored (rez ignoring all costs) - Archer is rezzed (additional cost: forfeit an agenda)

    Does the corp have to forfeit an agenda?

    I believe not.

This is correct, and also works with Accelerated Beta Test.  Archer refers to spending an agenda as a "cost", and the other two cards say "ignoring all costs".

Priority Requisition : When you score Priority Requisition, you may rez a piece of ice ignoring all costs.

Accelerated Beta Test : When you score Accelerated Beta Test, you may look at the top 3 cards of R&D. If any of those cards are ice, you may install and rez them, ignoring all costs. Trash the rest of the cards you looked at.

Archer : As an additional cost to rez Archer, the Corp must forfeit an agenda.



#6 DefconX

DefconX

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:50 AM

 As an additional question, based on what prune said about the Snare!'s:

Is the Runner allowed to stop accessing cards from R&D (or anywhere else really) at less than the maximum number?

 

For example, say that you were allowed to access 5 cards from R&D, you hit a Snare! on the third one and another Snare! would flatline you. Could you just call it a day and end the run there or do you have to keep going?

I would be inclined to think that you wouldn't be forced to access cards if you don't want to, but I can't find any mention in the rules one way or the other. Medium does say that it allows you to access an additional card, not forces, but I would be a lot more sure of the answer if it said something like "You may access an additional card…" instead.

This could be especially important in a scenario where you know that the Corp. has a trap asset with an upgrade in a remote server that you run on…



#7 prune

prune

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:31 AM

DefconX said:

 

 As an additional question, based on what prune said about the Snare!'s:

Is the Runner allowed to stop accessing cards from R&D (or anywhere else really) at less than the maximum number?

 

For example, say that you were allowed to access 5 cards from R&D, you hit a Snare! on the third one and another Snare! would flatline you. Could you just call it a day and end the run there or do you have to keep going?

 

 

Generally, no, you don't get to choose whether or not you can access cards once you're successful.  You do get to choose the order that you access them in; this often makes no difference, except at the very end of the game.  If you're in the middle of accessing cards, and get an agenda that puts you at 7 points, you win and the game ends immediately (even if the remaining cards will flatline you).

Page 18 rulebook quotes, emphasis added to indicate that you don't have any choice about accessing everything.  Note that there's a bit I left out about drawing the cards from R&D in order, and returning them in the same order, but note that they say "draw" not "access" there, so I believe the part about being able to choose the ordering still applies.  Everything below here is from the rulebook…

Access Phase :

R & D : The Runner accesses the top card of R&D, and any upgrades in its root…

HQ : The Runner accesses one random card from HQ and any upgrades in its root…

Archives : The Runner accesses all cards in Archives and any upgrades in its root…

Remote Server : The Runner accesses all cards in the server.

skipping ahead…

Accessing Multiple Cards : When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one at a time in any order he likes.. [snip] The Runner must fully resolve his access to a card before accessing the next card.  If the Runner scores an agenda that gives him seven or more points, he immediately wins the game, even if he would otherwise access more cards.

Concluding the Run : After the Runner has accessed all required cards, he returns any cards not stolen or trashed to their original play states… After a Runner finishes accessing cards, the run ends.



#8 prune

prune

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:33 AM

Two things I had wrong in the above.

First is that the cards accessed from R&D have to be accessed in the order they're in on top of the deck.  If there are one or more upgrades on the root of R&D, you do get to choose how to fit in accessing those with the cards from R&D.  For example, access an upgrade first, then a card from R&D, then the second upgrade, etc.  Or, access all of the upgrades first and then access the cards from R&D.  But the cards from R&D are revealed and accessed one at a time, in the order they're in, and any that are not trashed get returned in preserve that ordering.

Second, it seems that because Medium says it "allows" you to access multiple cards, it doesn't force you to.  So the answer is different for Medium than it is for Maker's Eye.  Maker's Eye, you must access 3 cards.  Medium, you can decide when to stop accessing cards after the first.

All the gory details are in this post over on Board Game Geek :

http://boardgamegeek...-multiple-cards



#9 DefconX

DefconX

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 15 September 2012 - 06:40 AM

prune said:

Two things I had wrong in the above.

First is that the cards accessed from R&D have to be accessed in the order they're in on top of the deck.  If there are one or more upgrades on the root of R&D, you do get to choose how to fit in accessing those with the cards from R&D.  For example, access an upgrade first, then a card from R&D, then the second upgrade, etc.  Or, access all of the upgrades first and then access the cards from R&D.  But the cards from R&D are revealed and accessed one at a time, in the order they're in, and any that are not trashed get returned in preserve that ordering.

Second, it seems that because Medium says it "allows" you to access multiple cards, it doesn't force you to.  So the answer is different for Medium than it is for Maker's Eye.  Maker's Eye, you must access 3 cards.  Medium, you can decide when to stop accessing cards after the first.

All the gory details are in this post over on Board Game Geek :

http://boardgamegeek...-multiple-cards

Excellent. I much prefer that ruling because a Medium powered R&D run into a crazy press-your-luck mind game.

I've got an Anarch deck in the works that this will definitely come up with so it's great to know the ruling.



#10 Metropolis Games

Metropolis Games

    Member

  • Members
  • 51 posts

Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:33 AM

I really like "Grimoire" with "Medium" as it gives it a token straight away so that you get a bonus access from your first run after install.

 






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS