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Wych Weapon Training


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#1 Niqvah

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:39 AM

Wyches start with exotic melee weapons, but lack the training for them (only having Universal Melee Training, which I do not believe covers exotic weapons). Is this an oversight?

They can make the purchase at first level, but I don't think I've ever seen a class begin play with weapons or equipment they can't use.



#2 HappyDaze

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:33 AM

It's worse than you think. Unless they take Kabalite Weapon Training, they also lack the ability to properly use both the splinter pistol that they might start with as well as all access to Melee Weapon Training (Primitive). Your basic Wytch cannot proficiently wield a knife.

I personally have always ruled that Melee Weapon Training (Universal) covers Primitive melee weapons since my mind cannot accept knowing how to use chainswords and power swords without knowing how to use a regular sword, but that's not the RAW.


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#3 HTMC

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:21 AM

I'm sure this is an oversight, as a GM I would assume that a PC has the training necessary to use any weapons and equipment he/she starts with by default.



#4 HappyDaze

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:14 PM

Do notice that most of the RT careers (Rogue Trader, Arch-Militant, Astropath Transcendent, Missionary, Navigator, and Voidmaster) have the option of starting with weapons found under Melee Weapon Training (Primitive) yet none start with that Talent without spending xp (or coming from a Death World).


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#5 Niqvah

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:36 PM

HappyDaze said:

Do notice that most of the RT careers (Rogue Trader, Arch-Militant, Astropath Transcendent, Missionary, Navigator, and Voidmaster) have the option of starting with weapons found under Melee Weapon Training (Primitive) yet none start with that Talent without spending xp (or coming from a Death World).

All except the Navigator begin with Melee Weapon Training (Universal), which covers their starting gear. The Navigator is given a staff and no training, but arguably that's more a symbol of office than a weapon in their case.

I agree with others that a simple House Rule is needed: you select your starting gear, and are given Exotic Weapon Training (That Item). Hopefully most GMs wouldn't take issue with that.

I also missed Spook's earlier thread on this very issue. Sorry about that.



#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:54 AM

Niqvah said:

HappyDaze said:

Do notice that most of the RT careers (Rogue Trader, Arch-Militant, Astropath Transcendent, Missionary, Navigator, and Voidmaster) have the option of starting with weapons found under Melee Weapon Training (Primitive) yet none start with that Talent without spending xp (or coming from a Death World).

 

All except the Navigator begin with Melee Weapon Training (Universal), which covers their starting gear.

That is incorrect per RAW. Melee Weapon Training (Universal) does not cover Primitive, which all of the Careers I mentioned have as possible starting weapons. Even if the Mono upgrade is applied to a weapon, it is still under Melee Weapon Training (Primitive).

 


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#7 Chacha

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:03 AM

I should also add that Astropaths, if it hasn't been changed by errata, do not have any training for their melee weapons. That said, they can buy Melee Weapon Training: Primitive at rank 1. Though why you'd want to is beyond me.



#8 Magellan

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:16 AM

In fairness, there are psychic powers that help with melee combat, and then there's force weapons.

Then again, force weapons are exotic, aren't they?


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#9 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:01 AM

I would suggest, as a house rule, creating the following starting Talent for all Wych player characters - Wych Weapon Training. It would provide proficiency with Splinter Pistols, Primitive Melee Weapons, Wych-Knives, Hydra Gauntlets, Razorflails, Shardnets and Impalers - in essence, the weapons a Wych is most likely to employ.


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#10 Niqvah

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:29 AM

HappyDaze said:

That is incorrect per RAW. Melee Weapon Training (Universal) does not cover Primitive, which all of the Careers I mentioned have as possible starting weapons. Even if the Mono upgrade is applied to a weapon, it is still under Melee Weapon Training (Primitive).

Right. I had forgotten Primitive isn't covered under Universal. I can't say I'm a fan of that, but it's the rule. So, there is precedent in RT for characters starting with gear they can't use. It's severe in the Wych's case since they can't use a single weapon they begin with, but that can arise in other classes, too.

Personally, for our group I reckon we'll House Rule it as N0-1_H3r3 suggests, so that it's in line with the Kabalite Warrior class. Not a huge problem. Just a bit odd.



#11 HappyDaze

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

As another note: Wytches can't actually take Kabalite Weapon Training since it has "Prerequisite: Kabalite Warrior" listed in its description. Yet another good reason for having a Wytch Weapon Training house rule.


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