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Accelerated Beta Test and Noise


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#1 midnightphil

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:08 AM

Have a question about these two cards.

Accelerated Beta Test - When you score Accelerated Beta Test, you may look at the top 3 cards of R&D. If any of those cards are ice, you may install and rez them, ignoring all costs. Trash the rest of the cards you looked at.

Noise - Whenever you install a virus program, the Corp trashes the top card of R&D.

Do cards trashed by these affects get put into the corps dicard pile (Archives) face-up or face-down.  Can't figure it out by the rule-book.

Thanks.



#2 Thee Forsaken One

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:16 AM

midnightphil said:

Have a question about these two cards.

Accelerated Beta Test - When you score Accelerated Beta Test, you may look at the top 3 cards of R&D. If any of those cards are ice, you may install and rez them, ignoring all costs. Trash the rest of the cards you looked at.

Noise - Whenever you install a virus program, the Corp trashes the top card of R&D.

Do cards trashed by these affects get put into the corps dicard pile (Archives) face-up or face-down.  Can't figure it out by the rule-book.

Thanks.

The rules are if a card has been revealed (Such as by a Runner accessing a person's R&D or HQ) then it is put into the Archive face-up. If it was put in without being revealed (Such as from the two effects above) then it is put in face-down as the Runner has not looked at the card.



#3 Gryndehl

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:19 AM

I am the other player in the games played where this came up.

In the area describing the corps play area, it mentioned can enter the archives facedown or faceup, but no mention on what determines this, just that it can vary depending on circumstances.  There is a section in the rules about trashing installed cards to make room for other installed cards which says they go faceup if rezzed, facedown if not.  The rules section about discarding say that cards from HQ are always discarded face down.  A section saying if archives are accessed by the runner, the end result is all cards in it are now face up.  A section saying if a card gets trashed by paying  its trash cost it goes face up.

This means that if a card was trashed/discarded and none of the following is true:

  • Discarded from HQ
  • Trashed to make room for another installation
  • Trashed by runner by paying trash cost

The faceup/facedown state is not clear.



#4 Methos

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:03 AM

 My play group encountered this as well.  From what we extrapolated from Page 18: Section 3 a Acess Phase regarding cards taken from R&D…and in the context of how unrevealed cards are not shown to the Corporation after the Runner looks at the accessed card, we determined that Accelerated Beta Test acted in such a manner as a 3 card mill on R&D and the cards which were not installed legally as ICE were placed in the archives face down, since they were never exposed or revealed by any card or player effect.

Again, this is how we house ruled this instance, but I think we are correct on this. Would be nice tho to perhaps see advanced Trash rules properly flow charted in any upcoming FAQ or rules update.

Btw…this is one of the best card games I've ever played! Having a blast learning it and all it's fine complexities.

 


We live for the One…We die for the One!


#5 byronczimmer

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:01 AM

Cards enter the archives face up if:

1) They were installed and rezzed (applies to ICE, Upgrades, Assets)

2) They were played as an Operation (applies to Operations)

3) They were accessed by the Runner during a Run and trashed during the access (applies to all card types, even operations, due to Demolition Run)

 

Cards enter the archives face down if:

1) They were installed and NOT rezzed (applies to ICE, Upgrades and Assets)

2) They were discarded due to hand overflow

3) Any other situation where the Runner does not have knowledge of the card

3a) Accelerated Beta Test non-ICE cards

3b) Noise 'discard from R&D due to Virus installation' effect

3c) Forged Activation Orders on an installed and NOT rezzed ICE that is chosen to be trashed

3d) etc

 

 



#6 Khudzlin

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

It boils down to : corp cards enter the archives face up if and only if the runner had knowledge of them at the time.

The runner has knowledge of played operations (they are revealed when they are played), rezzed cards and accessed cards.
The runner doesn't have knowledge of unrezzed cards (even if they have been exposed before), of cards in HQ or R&D when not accessed.



#7 TheProfessor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

Khudzlin said:

It boils down to : corp cards enter the archives face up if and only if the runner had knowledge of them at the time.

The runner has knowledge of played operations (they are revealed when they are played), rezzed cards and accessed cards.
The runner doesn't have knowledge of unrezzed cards (even if they have been exposed before), of cards in HQ or R&D when not accessed.

That sounds quite reasonable, and is probably the intent.  I'm curious if that is actually spelled out in the game rules anywhere.  I haven't seen it, but I may have simply missed it.  If it is not in the rules, then I think it is a good subject for the first FAQ.






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