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Martial Law Timing


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#1 Esto

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 05:24 AM

If you end your turn on an Innsmouth street location which contains a monster whilst Martial Law is in effect, do you fight the monster first before you roll to see if you are arrested?



#2 Julia

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

Esto said:

If you end your turn on an Innsmouth street location which contains a monster whilst Martial Law is in effect, do you fight the monster first before you roll to see if you are arrested?

That's the way I play, even if I remember rather clearly a post where it was said that you have to roll first, and then fight the monster (and I remember pretty clearly Jgt shouting against this ::laughter::)

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#3 Esto

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:25 AM

Julia said:

Esto said:

 

If you end your turn on an Innsmouth street location which contains a monster whilst Martial Law is in effect, do you fight the monster first before you roll to see if you are arrested?

 

 

That's the way I play, even if I remember rather clearly a post where it was said that you have to roll first, and then fight the monster (and I remember pretty clearly Jgt shouting against this ::laughter::)

JULIA, always afk, but unable to live without skimming the forum sometimes

   Thanks Julia, lucky for me that you like to skim the forum! I don't recall this discussion previously ---- and I do read this Forum every day. But I'm confident that what you remember did happen. My standard procedure before asking any question is to "Search the Forum" so I don't waste anyone's time needlessly. I wonder why this discussion did not appear under the header: "Martial Law", which is where it belongs. This brings up another question in my mind ---- how accurate & comprehensive is this particular search engine?  Has anyone else had difficulty finding something that has been answered previously?



#4 Dam

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:04 PM

Didn't even bother to search these forums, so, since I had BGG open in another tab, looked there:

"Check martial law first, then fight monsters."

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/5555650#5555650


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#5 Walk

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

Ah, drat.  Well, there goes my theory.  I had always ruled that you fought monsters, then you picked up Clues, then you dealt with any special effect that applied.  But, it would appear not.  It doesn't even make any sense; if the Innsmouth police were looking to stop you meddling in their affairs, and were willing to do you in to ensure it, wouldn't they just let the monster kill you?  In fact, the monster might even be an Innsmouth native.  "Mornin', Jim.  No worries, I've got this one…Yeah, I know, they've changed the orders on us.  Killing the guy on the streets seem a bit inconspicuous, so I'm gonna take back to the station…Yeah, it would probably be safer to have the murder done by a random civilian than by the police, but…uh…tell you what, I'll feed him to a shoggoth.  Probably.  I might just leave him in a cell and discuss the Evil Plan with the others while standing right next to it.  I'll see how I feel…Yeah, see you.  And hey, you see that Banks guy around, you go ahead and off him.  Trust me, a hobo's death is going to draw much more attention than an FBI agent's…."

….When is the FAQ coming out?



#6 jgt7771

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

Complementary Shout for Julia: NNNYYYAAARRRGGGHHH!!!

I honestly don’t think that FFG was thinking when they answered that question whenever Coltsfan says they did, and it gravely saddens me to see Dam of all people backing it up.

Would you roll for a Curfew Mythos check before dealing with a monster in the Downtown Streets? Just forget Innsmouth entirely…HAVE you already done that EVER? In the THREE YEARS between having a Curfew card and an Innsmouth board, have you EVER rolled that Will Check BEFORE dealing with a monster? Let me help: the answer is NO. And if the ONLY reason Innsmouth is different is because “FFG said so”…sorry, gentlemen, but they’ve been asleep at the wheel for a LONG TIME in regards to that phantom FAQ, and I’m going to need a LOT more than that to make sense of “roll the Martial Law check first”.

Consider this: you move to the Esoteric Order of Dagon, where the Dhole, the Star Vampire, and the Bloody Tongue wait for you. But you make a bad Martial Law check, and the Innsmouth PD arrest you………SAVING YOU FROM THREE ENCOUNTERS WITH DEATH??? By the uncaring sanity-rending void, how does that possibly reconcile with Arkham’s Razor??? What are we, Eddie Murphy in The Golden Child??? “I have stolen from my brother Numsie, and I must be punished! Officer, it is your duty to arrest me!” Cow dung!

I prefer the Mapquest approach: “zoom in” to the Investigator, and then “pull back”, dealing with everything as you go. The monster is closest, pursuing you…done with that…pull back…Hey, a Clue! Pocket that…pull back…aw nuts, I’m in an Innsmouth Location…check to see if the cops found me… Call it a House Rule if you must, but I am NEVER playing it otherwise.


What was that noise?

#7 Julia

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:20 AM

jgt7771 said:

Complementary Shout for Julia: NNNYYYAAARRRGGGHHH!!!

::laughter:: as I said, I play in a different way, monsters first, roll to check for martial law later. I'm 100% with you, and I have your very same impressions, that some of the most recent answers were given without thinking about the game too much


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#8 The Professor

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

jgt,

     The "Mapquest" approach…I like it!


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#9 Tibs

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:26 AM

Yep, I rolled my eyes at "martial law first" and continued to play it after the monsters.

It's easier. Monsters are in your face. They're dealt with in every game, so players move into either the horror check or the evade check automatically. Monster tokens are literally above the martial law modifier on the board. It's natural and thematic to do monsters first.



#10 Tbla

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:29 AM

Agreed. I I always deal with monsters first (there may be exceptions that I can't remember right now).



#11 Gamemaster

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:11 AM

Martial Law rolls occur at the END of Movement.  Moving into a location with a monster is happening during your Movement Phase.  Evades and Combats are also happening during the Movement Phase.  Who knows? You might Evade and continue your movement or you may fail a Nightgaunt Combat Check and get dropped into a gate.  Lots can be going on during the Movement Phase, so it makes sense to wait until the end of the phase for Martial Law checks.

"OK, Jim. That guy with the .45 and axe took out the Dark Druid for us.  Now let's go arrest him."

 



#12 Dam

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:30 AM

Gamemaster said:

Martial Law rolls occur at the END of Movement.  Moving into a location with a monster is happening during your Movement Phase.  Evades and Combats are also happening during the Movement Phase.

For purposes of this thread, should point out that combat takes place after you end your movement in a location with a monster. Wording is even the same, "end his movement" for both ML and having to deal with monsters.


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#13 florrat

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:46 PM

@Dam: So suppose you enter a location with 2 monsters, try to evade the first one, fail, receive combat and horror damage, succesfully flee from it, and then succesfully evade the second monster. Do you suggest that you have to check Martial Law just before you tried to evade the second monster (because then it was clear your movement ended)? But it's still quite weird it happens after one combat and before the second. Other options in your ruling seem weirder (check ML after failing evade check, but before taking combat damage OR you have to announce before your first evade check if this check is made because you want to move on or if it's made because you want to end you movement, and depending the ML timing on that announcement).

It seems more elegant if ML timing was after monster combat. Your argument about the same wording suggest that investigators may decide which comes first, per Timing Conflicts.



#14 Dam

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:35 PM

Well, clarify something first, why are you entering a location with 2+ monsters with the intent of NOT ending your movement there to begin with? Can't run-scoop Clues without stopping, can't have an encounter, only thing I can think of is to trade with another investigator, but then, having 2+ investigators in IH sounds wrong as well .

Since for me, if I'm entering a location with 2+ monsters, that means I'll be ending my movement there, period. So ML comes before either I'd deal with either monster.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#15 jgt7771

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:26 AM

Oh, come on, Dam.  You're reaching.  You latched onto the word "location" when that was hardly the point.

Move Florrat's example to ANY Innsmouth Street.  Such as…you're trying to get to Sawbone Alley to assist in a jailbreak, and you just arrived in Innsmouth via the Train Depot.  Try saying everything you just said again, now that you're doing it in the Church Green Streets.


What was that noise?

#16 Dam

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

jgt7771 said:

Move Florrat's example to ANY Innsmouth Street.  Such as…you're trying to get to Sawbone Alley to assist in a jailbreak, and you just arrived in Innsmouth via the Train Depot.  Try saying everything you just said again, now that you're doing it in the Church Green Streets.

Assist jailbreak? Does… not… compute… Don't think I've ever done that, seem to recall on those very, very rare occasions an investigator gets arrested in IH, he either finds himself at Devil's Reef (was there a go to Y'ha encounter as well?) or devoured, either way, he's out of there so why bother assisting?

However, for the case of argument, let's say I've gone off my rocker and decide to pass by two monsters at Joe Sargent's to reach Church Green Street to place a couple of clues on the Fed Raid track (as unlikely scenario as that is, given the Innsmouth run-around possibilities with the arrows and me actually caring about the Deep One Track…). If I fail my evade against the first one, take damage and resolve the fight with that monster (sticking with the once you start an "encounter", no interrupting actions). If I'm still standing after the first monster, ML now, if still there, fight the second monster.

As has been said by others many times, locations (or spaces just for JGT ) are big, meaning you can Tommy Gun on monster while still evading another in the same space and it doesn't cause issues with players about how that should be impossible due to the noise made. Who's to say that after defeating the first monster, fight that made noise, you're about to get moving again (as in the investigator would be moving, even if the player knows the move is at an end), the IH fuzz arrive and haul him away before he can reach the spot (within the space) where the second monster is located. Why assume there is a congaline of monsters, with the IH fuzz at the back of the line waiting their turn?


"A dirty mind is its own reward."





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