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Accessing HQ


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#1 Nerdmeister

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:54 AM

Page 18 of the Netrunner rulebook:

"The Runner accesses one random card from HQ and any upgrades in it´s root. Any cards the Runner does not score or trash return to HQ"

This puzzles me a bit to be honest. Does this mean that the cards installed in the HQ root is returned to HQ (aka corp players hand) after the runner has completed his run?

The wording suggests to me that the cards do return to hand but I´m not sure if that is the intended way for it to go.



#2 TheRealLeo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:08 AM

No, they don't return to the Corp's hand. It's just worded poorly.



#3 Los Grak

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:45 AM

 On a related note, can the Runner trash a card that has a trash cost of NIL as opposed to a trash cost of 0 (Zero)?



#4 Paul Grogan

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:51 AM

Not without a card such as demolition run.



#5 Nerdmeister

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:25 AM

TheRealLeo said:

No, they don't return to the Corp's hand. It's just worded poorly.

That is what I suspect is the case. Do you have something to back it up with, like an official ruling/FAQ, a judging at the gencon tournament or some such?



#6 Paul Grogan

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:19 PM

Nerdmeister said:

TheRealLeo said:

 

No, they don't return to the Corp's hand. It's just worded poorly.

 

 

That is what I suspect is the case. Do you have something to back it up with, like an official ruling/FAQ, a judging at the gencon tournament or some such?

99.9% of people on these forums will say that this is the case.   If you also watch the youtube video of the NR finals at Gencon, you'll see how it was played there.

Only a card with a trash cost may be trashed by the runner when he accesses it.



#7 pwnguin

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:02 PM

Not sure what you mean by NIL; a trash cost of zero is free to trash, and I'm fairly certain I saw a rule in the book stating you can only trash cards with a trash symbol on them.



#8 Paul Grogan

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:11 PM

pwnguin said:

Not sure what you mean by NIL; a trash cost of zero is free to trash, and I'm fairly certain I saw a rule in the book stating you can only trash cards with a trash symbol on them.

 

Agreed.  There is no such thing as "a trash cost of NIL".   If something does not have a trash cost, it cannot be trashed.



#9 Nerdmeister

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:19 PM

Paul Grogan said:

Nerdmeister said:

 

TheRealLeo said:

 

No, they don't return to the Corp's hand. It's just worded poorly.

 

 

That is what I suspect is the case. Do you have something to back it up with, like an official ruling/FAQ, a judging at the gencon tournament or some such?

 

 

99.9% of people on these forums will say that this is the case.   If you also watch the youtube video of the NR finals at Gencon, you'll see how it was played there.

Only a card with a trash cost may be trashed by the runner when he accesses it.

The first post, which my reply refered to, isn´t about trashing at all. Rather about wether all cards return to corp hand after having been accessed in HQ and HQ root. The wording in the rulebook (see original post) is easily interpreted that cards in the root also return to the hand. If I were to judge it only by the wording in the rule book then I´d say they do return to hand after being accessed (no trashing). Though I have high doubts if that is the intend



#10 TheRealLeo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:29 PM

Nerdmeister said:

TheRealLeo said:

 

No, they don't return to the Corp's hand. It's just worded poorly.

 

 

That is what I suspect is the case. Do you have something to back it up with, like an official ruling/FAQ, a judging at the gencon tournament or some such?

Further down on page 18, under "Concluding the Run":

"After the Runner has accessed all required cards, he returns any cards not stolen or trashed to their original play states. For example, an unrezzed card in a remote server returns facedown to that server, and a card accessed from HQ returns to HQ."

If you read over the rules for accessing the Archives, you might also get confused as to what you do with any upgrades if this part weren't in there. In fact, if you read that part, and then the multi-access rule, you might find accessing the Archives to be rather daunting.

It just comes down to the fact that the rulebook was not written as well as it could (or perhaps should) have been.



#11 Nerdmeister

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:53 PM

TheRealLeo said:

Further down on page 18, under "Concluding the Run":

"After the Runner has accessed all required cards, he returns any cards not stolen or trashed to their original play states. For example, an unrezzed card in a remote server returns facedown to that server, and a card accessed from HQ returns to HQ."

If you read over the rules for accessing the Archives, you might also get confused as to what you do with any upgrades if this part weren't in there. In fact, if you read that part, and then the multi-access rule, you might find accessing the Archives to be rather daunting.

It just comes down to the fact that the rulebook was not written as well as it could (or perhaps should) have been.

Ah right you are. I even read that earlier but then just stumpled on the puzzling wording and got fixated on it. Glad to have it cleared up






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