Jump to content



Photo

Sisters of Battle: IH or BoM?


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Vergaul

Vergaul

    Member

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:52 PM

 Dark Heresy offers two alternatives for the Adepta Sororitas, the first being a branched career in the Inquisitor's Handbook including the more militant Sisters along with branches for the more support oriented Hospitallers and Dialogous.  Blood of Martyrs adds a non-branching career path for militant sisters, with the support orders as 1st level alternative classes for the Adept.

 

Which of these is better?  Quite frankly, I find it highly questionable that a level 1 Dark Heresy character is representative of a militant Sister of Battle.  These girls are supposed to be pretty elite troops.  I sort of like the IH progression where all Sisters have a roughly similar background before specializing in their chosen order.

 

Any thoughts?



#2 Lynata

Lynata

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,023 posts

Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:55 PM

In this RPG, Battle Sisters are more numerous and less elite than they are in other interpretations of the setting, just about scary enough to pose a threat to the Imperial Guard as opposed to, say, purging rogue Marine Chapters like they do in GW's fluff.

But as a player who leans much more to what has been published in rulebooks and codices over the past couple decades, I found the version of Sororitas in the Inquisitor's Handbook notably more compatible to my own views than the one in Blood of Martyrs. Having a Sisterhood character start out as a Novice was, in my opinion, a neat trick to avoid pushing a fully fledged Battle Sister onto a group of level 1 acolytes, which would invariably end up either overpowering the other characters or receiving a massive hit from the nerfbat, or a compromise between the two. Which I think was what BoM did. They still start out notably stronger than the other classes (though the Book of Judgment may have changed that?), but with their high XP cost, or various combat talents not even available where you'd expect them (melee specialist without Parry skill?), and limited selection of equipment (if you want to stick to the theme), it's just a matter of levels/time until the other characters first catch up, then surpass her. I think the IH version fares much better in that she starts out smaller, but "grows" at a somewhat similar pace.

Additionally, I don't fancy the Acts of Faith in BoM as some of them are too obviously "space magic" as opposed to the more vague "classic" miracles that may just as well be a combination of luck and intense perseverance/willpower simply mistaken by superstitious witnesses to be divine intervention.

So, whether the Inquisitor's Handbook or Blood of Martyrs is better is very much a question of personal preferences, and your own perception of the Adepta Sororitas. Both books offer some cool stuff, so I think a combination of the two would have been perfect. But if I'd have to choose, I would say IH.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#3 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,006 posts

Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:44 PM

Lynata said:

various combat talents not even available where you'd expect them (melee specialist without Parry skill?)

There is no Parry skill in Dark Heresy.


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#4 Luthor Harkon

Luthor Harkon

    Member

  • Members
  • 644 posts

Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:46 AM

Lynata said:

In this RPG, Battle Sisters are more numerous and less elite than they are in other interpretations of the setting, just about scary enough to pose a threat to the Imperial Guard as opposed to, say, purging rogue Marine Chapters like they do in GW's fluff.

Well, they (i.e. the Sisters of Battle of the Ebon Chalice) are mentioned as being the most elite and dedicated troops in the Calixis Sector. And they number around fifty… Not sure what you mean by more numerous and less elite honestly.

Besides, purging Marine Chapters happens maybe about once every couple of centuries, so not really a "normal field of duty" for anyone if you ask me (even though it might have been mentioned many years ago in some of the more obscure background in the decades GW existed (but there are a lot of weird things in the GW background of the past anyway).



#5 Gregorius21778

Gregorius21778

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,809 posts

Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:36 AM

Vergaul said:

 Dark Heresy offers two alternatives for the Adepta Sororitas, the first being a branched career in the Inquisitor's Handbook including the more militant Sisters along with branches for the more support oriented Hospitallers and Dialogous.  Blood of Martyrs adds a non-branching career path for militant sisters, with the support orders as 1st level alternative classes for the Adept.

 

Which of these is better? 



I had a Sororita player and made him change from IH to BoM Battlesister. It was a mistake. While you get the servoarmour and all the nice stuff you pay a lot more XP for things. If would thereby consider the IH version with the option to buy Faith Talents for about 300xp the Talent. Never checked the "optional starting Rank" from BoM, but since they only change the starting package they should be alright.



#6 jabberwoky

jabberwoky

    Member

  • Members
  • 210 posts

Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:53 AM

For my money, I prefer the IH version, though my players usually choose the "normal" ranks.

However, is there anything particularly wrong with the other sister variants in BoM (The Sisters Famulous, Hospitaliers & Dialogous)?



#7 Lynata

Lynata

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,023 posts

Posted 02 September 2012 - 04:08 AM

 HappyDaze said:

There is no Parry skill in Dark Heresy.
Duh, you're right. Must've had a senior moment there. Though I distinctly recall being miffed about some close combat ability that was present in IH, but missing from BoM…

Luthor Harkon said:

Well, they (i.e. the Sisters of Battle of the Ebon Chalice) are mentioned as being the most elite and dedicated troops in the Calixis Sector. And they number around fifty… Not sure what you mean by more numerous and less elite honestly.
It's over a thousand now. BoM upped the numbers considerably by stationing troops from nearly every Major Order in the sector. The largest would be the Order of the Bloody Rose with a full Preceptory.

I liked the old numbers in the Inquisitor's Handbook more, too. I imagine that the size was upped so that (a) players would have more freedom to choose what Order their character might come from as well as (b) allowing GMs to have them appear as NPCs or enemies more often, without actually running the risk of their entire presence being terminated.

With the Storm Wardens in the Deathwatch book, the Calixis Sector now has its own Space Marine Chapter as well, so I imagine the "most elite" perk is gone, too.

Perhaps it's worth pointing out that the original rulebook as well as the Inquisitor's Handbook were produced by a different company, so perhaps FFG is just having a different vision.

Luthor Harkon said:

Besides, purging Marine Chapters happens maybe about once every couple of centuries, so not really a "normal field of duty" for anyone if you ask me (even though it might have been mentioned many years ago in some of the more obscure background in the decades GW existed (but there are a lot of weird things in the GW background of the past anyway).
Last mentioned in the October 2011 issue of White Dwarf, actually. Before that, the most recent source was (to my knowledge) the Index Astartes IV from 2004, or more specifically the Rogue Space Marines article in it.

You're absolutely correct in pointing out that it won't happen often, but it doesn't seem likely that FFG's Sisters would be capable of performing this task at all when called upon. I suppose it's possible that this might be more due to the newly introduced equipment gap and how damage mitigation works in the rules, but it's obvious that the writers realised it when you compare the descriptions in the BoM with the Sisters' Codex fluff.
Just like with many novels, some things are just a little different in this interpretation of the setting.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#8 Adeptus-B

Adeptus-B

    Part-Time Super Villian

  • Members
  • 1,930 posts

Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:31 AM

 

I don't have any first-hand experience with either option, so I can only give my opinion. Which is: there is no way in Hell (or the Empyrian) that I would allow a Rank 1 character to start with power armour and a bolter! At this point (my players are just shy of Ascention level), I would have no problem adding a BoM Sister to the existing party, but when I start a new campaign, if anyone wants to play a Sororitas, I think I would insist on the IH version, possibly with Acts of Faith from BoM (I'll need to re-read them to decide for sure), and the option to earn Sororitas power armour and bolter as a high-level Elite Advance (kind of like Signature Wargear in Deathwatch). That's my 2 Thrones…



#9 Lynata

Lynata

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,023 posts

Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:06 PM

I think it also depends on when the individual GM will grant his players access to stuff like power armour and bolt weaponry. What's the average … level 5, level 6? That'd be the point where the Sister could "rank up" from Novice to fully fledged Sororitas as well, and I think it works like this in the IH, too.

Needless to say, this might require some downtime in-between deployments. If it doesn't fit in with the campaign right away, delay this progression until it seems fitting. Ultimately, the most important thing about a Battle Sister is their basic behaviour and the background of their organisation - neither will change just because you keep her a Novice a little while longer. In fact, this may well make the character's ascension into the ranks of her Order's warriors all the more rewarding for the player. Obviously, I would also recommend not minding the names attached to the ranks too much; a Novice wouldn't become an officer of her Order in just a couple years' time.

Also, consider sweetening this "deal" by fleshing out the Novice a bit. For example, by giving this stage of character development their own signature wargear to which this character would largely be limited. Fine robes, a carapace breastplate, a lasgun and a ceremonial dagger that might double as a bayonet … There's a lot of undeveloped potential style in such a role. Do it right, and the player will grow to love it nearly as much as he or she would like the "full" Battle Sister.

In terms of Acts of Faith, the IH already has a few special abilities, too. They're not as numerous and not as fancy, but, at least in my interpretation of the setting, fit much better than some of the "space magic" in BoM. Matter of personal preferences, though. It might also be possible to "mix 'n match" to some degree.

 


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#10 Cymbel

Cymbel

    Member

  • Members
  • 735 posts

Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:28 PM

I was running a SoB game, one of the players made a rebooted and "balanced" Militant path and I added Pure Faith for free to the other Sister careers. The players started as novices, they got a flak jacket, lasgun or laspistol, a mono knife, chest carapace (5) and some other gear I think. It went pretty well, but I had to put it on pause as life got too hectic.

I can post a pic and the rules later (they are on another PC), one memorable moment was IG beating up some "rioters" who were trying to ask the novices for help, they all nodded approvingly at them getting beaten.



#11 Skeletor

Skeletor

    Member

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 05 September 2012 - 01:27 PM

I don't have the books infront of me so forgive me if this is slightly off, but when I did my write up on the SoS when I was comparing perceived High-leveled powers I came to the conclusion that a BoM Battle sister was capable of picking up Soulstorm as early as like rank 2 or 3 (if you focused on the faith powers). While it is sort of a dangerous tool to use it's also extreme powerful and if you were using raw from the book that'd be a rank 2 or 3 acolyte with power armor, botler, and a psyker/demon demolishing tool. Kinda devastating.

However, and I don't want to kick a dead horse, I think it comes down to the kind of campaign you're running and how you want to approach letting the player use and/or utilizing the player that is playing a Sister.

Also: Lynata

I had the same feeling about the combat efficiency talents of the BoM sisters compared to IH, especially when you compare the characteristic costs (BoM sisters have worse characteristic costs than IH sisters which are comparable to clerics). I also found the Oblatia (rank 5) alternate rank much more appealing than the ones presented by BoM. I think the power budget for BoM sisters was taxed heavily for the Faith powers, but I've never been keen on a power set that the power source is the ever precious fate point.



#12 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,155 posts

Posted 05 September 2012 - 01:57 PM

Skeletor said:

I don't have the books infront of me so forgive me if this is slightly off, but when I did my write up on the SoS when I was comparing perceived High-leveled powers I came to the conclusion that a BoM Battle sister was capable of picking up Soulstorm as early as like rank 2 or 3 (if you focused on the faith powers).

Without looking at the book, I'm pretty sure that's impossible. Soulstorm has something like 7 or so prereqs and a Rank 3 BS can't have more than 4 Faith Powers.



#13 Skeletor

Skeletor

    Member

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:22 PM

bogi_khaosa said:

 

Without looking at the book, I'm pretty sure that's impossible. Soulstorm has something like 7 or so prereqs and a Rank 3 BS can't have more than 4 Faith Powers.

 

Thank you sir, I figured out where I went wrong there. It looks more like rank 5(ish) that it becomes possible which is relieving. Feel free to point and laugh x_X



#14 Lynata

Lynata

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,023 posts

Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:20 AM

Skeletor said:

I also found the Oblatia (rank 5) alternate rank much more appealing than the ones presented by BoM.
Okay, that's one thing from the IH I didn't like. The Oblatia is pretty much a "Repentia Light" and as such comes off like a half-assed attempt to do a character in that vein without actually being as hardcore. But my personal view on the Sisters is admittedly extremely conservative, so I'm obviously biased.

Skeletor said:

I think the power budget for BoM sisters was taxed heavily for the Faith powers, but I've never been keen on a power set that the power source is the ever precious fate point.
My thoughts exactly. For my own pet-project I'm still pondering over a good alternative. So far, my considerations include a limitation by Willpower ("WB"), a special Purity Points system (like Corruption Points, but working the other direction), as well as simply making this stuff available "once per encounter". Not yet decided what to go with eventually.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#15 Skeletor

Skeletor

    Member

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:13 AM

Lynata said:

Okay, that's one thing from the IH I didn't like. The Oblatia is pretty much a "Repentia Light" and as such comes off like a half-assed attempt to do a character in that vein without actually being as hardcore. But my personal view on the Sisters is admittedly extremely conservative, so I'm obviously biased.

 

I can understand that POV, I should have specified that I like them mechanically by comparison to the BoM alternates. Admittedly my knowledge of the Sisters and their organization is limited and I tend to view them along side the other careers in a very numbers oriented way.

Anywho I'll quit derailing from the topic ;)



#16 Lynata

Lynata

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,023 posts

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

Skeletor said:

Anywho I'll quit derailing from the topic ;)
No worries, that's just how forum discussions work - and for what it's worth, the Oblatia<->Repentia comparison is actually part of the topic, isn't it? :)


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#17 Plushy

Plushy

    Member

  • Members
  • 811 posts

Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:15 PM

I really love the non-Militant sisters in BoM. One day, I'll get to to play a Sister Famulous…


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#18 Louisp

Louisp

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:46 AM

 I think it depends on the type campaign your gm runs, if they run a predominantly combat orrianted one bom is better suited IMO, where as for investigation the inquisitors handbook is better. 

 

As a side note the faith powers in bom are very very good



#19 Azraiel

Azraiel

    Member

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:04 AM

Well for me it's clear cut.

The original Sororitas rules in the Inquisitor's Handbook, in their efforts to make every type of sister workable in a single career package, pretty much failed entirely. It created massively broken Battle Sisters with no weak stat progressions who were all-powerful godesses at almost anything they attempted. On the other hand the Diologous and Hospitaler were lukewarm at best for their intended purposes, not to mention the absence of rules for the Order Famulos, who are quite probably the most interesting of the Orders to begin with.

The newer and better thought out rules in Blood of Martyrs provide proper rules, fairly accurate lore and good signature equipment for all three of the non-militant orders. Furthermore, the updated Battle Sisters are not only of a more reasonable (though still noticeably higher) power level than other Dark Heresy careers, but they gain free and legitimate access to their signature equipment.

Sure, you'll be walking into a hell of a lot more ambushes if your Battle Sister, or anyone else, for that matter, is silly enough to parade around in their Power Armour during an investigation, but at least she has it when the time comes to break out the good stuff and go loud.

I'm not saying it's balanced against the other careers, of course, but it's better designed and overall way, way more reasonable. Between the greater selection of Soroitas-only abilities, sacred gear, faith talents and extra lore to call on, it just plain works cooler, smoother and better than the busted-as-hell mishmash in the Inquisitor's Handbook.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS