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Y-Wing + Ion Cannon = Too Good?


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#1 zachbunn

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:12 AM

A community member over at Team Covenant recently posted an unboxing video of a Y-Wing he picked up at GenCon and in the comments of his blog post the inevitable discussion about the Ion Cannon stirred. I've played probably fifteen games at this point (most against the Y-Wing as the Empire) and I wanted to see what other people who have been playing some more are thinking at this point.

Personally, I don't think that it's over-powered or too good. Once you realize that:

1. It can only ever do 1 damage (and no critical hits)
2. What it can actually do to you

You start to play around it. Anyways, what are your thoughts? Is it too good or is it just really good?

Zach


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#2 DavicusPrime

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:24 PM

Looking at the stats, I'm not thinking it's all that powerful.  1) you have limited range. 2) it can only hit one model a turn and Imps usually have plenty of other models on the board.  3) The already mentioned 1 point of damage. 4) The fact that the target still gets to take actions and shoot.

I was thinking this attack is more about area denial and attack disruption than an offensive super weapon.  It makes it possible to set up a target for other ships to take down, but once you start losing your attacking ships its' utility decreases in that area.

Once my ships get to me I'll have a better handle on how they work, but for the most part I would suspect that the issue is with the Imp players needing to be a little more careful around these guys.

Plus, taking a Y-Wing and paying for the Ion Cannon, soaks up a lot of points.  A fully loaded ship with one of the named pilots is going to eat up a third of your points easy.

I'm going to be playing both sides so I figure I'll be learning how to use them and how to counter them soon enough.

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#3 Hrathen

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:50 PM

 an ion-turret cost 5 points, which is the most expesive upgrade so far.

I don't think there will be any wory about spamming them.  The really good thing they do is set up an attack for the next round.  I imagine that you would want an x-wint to take that shot.

So I think the ion-cannon is cool, becasue it isn't supper good by itself, but it can be very useful if used intelligently.


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#4 DavicusPrime

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

 I think that's really the point of them, setting up a target for your squad mates.  And to protect your back.  A squadron of all Y-Wings could be an interesting thing.  Moving in for the kill could be quite painful with each of them covering for each other.  And that they're turreted compensates for their lack of maneuverability and speed.  Still, I'm not convinced of the Y's utility.  I'll definitely be getting one.  If they turn out to be a solid addition, I might eventually get a pair.

-DavicusPrime



#5 zachbunn

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:47 AM

 After posting this, I had an epic game where I shot Vader with the Ion Cannon two turns in a row which sent him straight into an asteroid. Then he rolled a critical on the asteroid damage (the card that removes abilities and added cards to a ship). It was gross.


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#6 spacemonkeymafia

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:40 AM

zachbunn said:

 After posting this, I had an epic game where I shot Vader with the Ion Cannon two turns in a row which sent him straight into an asteroid. Then he rolled a critical on the asteroid damage (the card that removes abilities and added cards to a ship). It was gross.

This is one of the more amusing results I'm waiting to see. Would be even better if you had a team of Y-wings that just drive opponents off the map. It would be a waste for inexpensive TIE fighters but Vader? Hell yeah



#7 SteveSpikes

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:21 PM

The ion cannon can truly be a "game changer".  you can keep pesky fighters off your back, albeit at close range; and if you have the "perfect shot", you can make those pesky fighters slam into nearby asteroids, or other ships, with disastrous effects.

In hindsight, I just wish I had put one Dutch's Y-Wing during the Inaugural Tournament at Gen Con.  Now I know . . . . :)



#8 2BitGeek

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:30 PM

I've heard pretty convincing arguments that the Biggs/R2D2/Ion Cannon combo can be pretty game breaking. I brought it up to the FFG rep at Celebration VI, and his reply was basically that it's a great combo but you still have to set it up and win the dice rolls.

Since I don't want to make it un-fun for my wife (she'll stop playing with me), I went for a lesser test at home with General Salm/Ion Cannon.

Due to dice, the Ion Cannon failed me completely in 2 games. In the third game it kept Vader on ice for two turns and killed him on the third. Assuming I interpreted the rules correctly, it bypasses his shield entirely.

There aren't enough players locally to try competitive play, but I like the idea of having the Y-wing set up a shot for the X-wing on the following turn.



#9 GunslingerSix

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:06 PM

I don't have my game in front of me, but can Biggs fly the Y-Wing?  I'm pretty sure he can only fly the X-Wing.



#10 SteveSpikes

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:51 PM

You are correct.  Biggs is in the X-Wing (with R2D2), and a Y-Wing (with "Dutch" Vander or Horton Salm, et al) as a squad mate; with another fighter, or two and "upgrade cards" to round out the squad,



#11 haslo

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:42 PM

2BitGeek said:

Assuming I interpreted the rules correctly, it bypasses his shield entirely.

Doesn't seem to, no. The Ion Cannon just deals (non-critical) damage, which is stopped by shields as usual.



#12 Hrathen

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:55 AM

 I was putting som list together last night and I realized that Y-wing start out expesive and can get even more so fast.  A droid, Ion cannons and two proton torpedoes, full upgrades for a Y-wing, can cost more than a TIE fighter.  Add that to the fact that a Y-wing only has 1 agility dice and it becomes a pretty expensive model that is really easy to hit.  It does take a lot of hits to kill it, but if your enemy focuses on it and hits it consistently I imagine that it will go down pretty fast.  Once it is dead you just lost a lot of points

Bigs could protect it with his ability, but Y-Wings need X-wings to shoot at their ionized enemies, unless they use expensive Proton Torpedoes to be your offense.


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#13 dbmeboy

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:13 AM

haslo said:

2BitGeek said:

Assuming I interpreted the rules correctly, it bypasses his shield entirely.

 

Doesn't seem to, no. The Ion Cannon just deals (non-critical) damage, which is stopped by shields as usual.

 

Haslo is correct.  Ion cannons do not bypass shields.



#14 2BitGeek

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:23 AM

Yeah, looks like I misinterpreted that. I thought there was a distinction between scoring a hit & dealing damage. 

Regarding Biggs though, I meant having him in an X-wing with R2D2 to draw fire, not having him in an Y-wing. 

Anyway, if it doesn't bypass shields I don't think it's overpowered, for that reason and the rest listed above (limited damage and range, expensive, etc.).

 



#15 GunslingerSix

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:16 PM

2BitGeek said:

Yeah, looks like I misinterpreted that. I thought there was a distinction between scoring a hit & dealing damage. 

Regarding Biggs though, I meant having him in an X-wing with R2D2 to draw fire, not having him in an Y-wing. 

Anyway, if it doesn't bypass shields I don't think it's overpowered, for that reason and the rest listed above (limited damage and range, expensive, etc.).

 

The damage doesn't bypass the shields, but the ION Effect does, regardless of damage inflicted to the hull.



#16 dbmeboy

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 06:51 AM

GunslingerSix said:

2BitGeek said:

 

Yeah, looks like I misinterpreted that. I thought there was a distinction between scoring a hit & dealing damage. 

Regarding Biggs though, I meant having him in an X-wing with R2D2 to draw fire, not having him in an Y-wing. 

Anyway, if it doesn't bypass shields I don't think it's overpowered, for that reason and the rest listed above (limited damage and range, expensive, etc.).

 

 

 

The damage doesn't bypass the shields, but the ION Effect does, regardless of damage inflicted to the hull.

This is true.  Ion cannon (if it hits) deals 1 damage (just like normal damage) and causes the hit fighter to move 1 forward as its next move.  That is all.



#17 DavicusPrime

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:11 AM

Ultimately, the Ion Cannon is just a disruption weapon, meant to keep attackers off of your tail while you go in for your bombing run (a Y-Wing's primary role is Fighter/Bomber).  You can use it to set a target ship up for your wingmen or you can use it to get away from someone gunning for your back side.  But it is far from a game winning weapon on it's own.

I long to give it a try on the table, but I don't expect it to be the key to my victory.

-DavicusPrime



#18 Hrathen

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:52 AM

 The Ion Turret also has three attack dice, compared to the Y-Wing's 2 dice for its primary weapons, make it pretty good.

Remember an X-wing pays 4 points and a target lock to roll an extra attack dice once (proton torpedoes do have other effect but the main one is that extra attack dice.)


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#19 PanzerKraken

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:39 AM

So far the two games I've played with the Y-Wing, it's essentially won me the game each time.  Don't know if I would call it OP against the Empire so far, but it really seems that way.  While only 1 defense die is pretty bad, the ship can still absorb 8 hits before it dies which frankly is alot since the Empire has very low damage output in wave 1.  And with the right droid upgrade you get the shields repairin….. yeah right now I would say it's a bit too good.

I'm sure things will even out more with more waves and options for the empire, but it feels beardy to take a fully upgraded Y-Wing currently.  While it may seem like a sitting duck, any smart player will make it a key component to protect in their games and while your escorts and the enemy zoom around each other, the Y-Wing gets to just coast along shooting in a 360 degree arc picking off targets.  I really think the Ion cannon should have been only 2 attack dice instead of 3



#20 R2D2

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:20 AM

Hrathen said:

 The Ion Turret also has three attack dice, compared to the Y-Wing's 2 dice for its primary weapons, make it pretty good.

Remember an X-wing pays 4 points and a target lock to roll an extra attack dice once (proton torpedoes do have other effect but the main one is that extra attack dice.)

 

But the X-wing can do more than 1 damage per turn with its 2 (or 3 with range advantage) dice than the ion cannon can ever do with 3 dice… not sure how the probability works out but its not as cut and dry as you make out..






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