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Belthir - Act II - Cry Havoc


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#1 any2cards

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:48 AM

Last night, we played the quest The Wyrm Rises.  During the Encounter 2, the OL gets Belthir.  Belthir has an ability as follows:

Action: Cry Havoc: Belthir performs a move action and then an attack action.  The attack targets every figure he moves through".

The basic rules of D2e allows any monster to take 2 actions, but only one of them is suppose to be an attack action.  That can be modified by playing a card such as Frenzy which allows 2 attacks.

Now, since Cry Havoc is a declared action (as identified by the black arrow on the card) which happens to allow both a move and an attack action, the issue came up as to whether or not Belthir should be allowed to use two Cry Havoc actions, essentially allowing him to move twice and attack twice WITHOUT the use of any additional cards.

In order to complete the quest, we all agreed that this was allowed, basing our thinking on the fact that any other card (monster or lieutenant) that identifies an ability triggered by using an action can be used twice; further, most of the players seemed to agree that this extra power of Belthir's is consistent with the fact that it only appears on his ACT II card, and that he is a lieutenant after all.

His ability to use Cry Havoc twice is extremely powerful, and almost always resulted in his ability to move and attack all 4 heroes.  I will say that the heroes quickly got smart and used abilities/weapons which immobilized him.  Once immobilized, we all agreed he could no longer use Cry Havoc as it required the use of a move action.  Further, by immobolizing him, it allowed them to win the Encounter as the only way the OL can win is if Belthir gets off the board.

They kept him Immobolized by using the Beserker ability called Cripple.  The Hero utilized was Karnon who has a strength of 6, meaning he passes his attribute test 35 out of 36 rolls (essentially causing Immobolization all of the time).  The worst part of this is that the Cripple ability does not even require the use of an action (it does cost 2 fatigue); so Karnon could double move, get next to Belthir, and Cripple him.  Once near him, he would cripple him, and then rest.  Thus no fatigue issue.

So, two questions:

1) If you played this quest, did you allow Belthir to use both actions for Cry Havoc, allowing him to move twice and attack twice?

2) Who else finds it rather unbalanced to allow an Immobolization without the use of an action?  I guess it wouldn't be so bad if the OL had some way to remove Condition cards, but he doesn't.

Just looking for some feedback.



#2 kiper32

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:27 AM

we ruled that cry havoc could not be used twice because it says attack action and you cannot use an attack action as both actions. 



#3 any2cards

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:41 AM

kiper32 said:

we ruled that cry havoc could not be used twice because it says attack action and you cannot use an attack action as both actions. 

I understand your position, and noted same.  And yet, there is precedence within the game for taking multiple attacks.  Several monsters have the Ravage ability which allows multiple attacks.  In addition, there are many monsters/lieutenants which have abilities activated by utilizing an action which effectively attacks a hero, and which can be used multiple times.

Despite what some are most likely to say, there is no clear, fast and true rule here.  Nevertheless, I do appreciate your response, as I would like to know how the majority are playing it.



#4 kiper32

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:26 AM

Ravage is a specific case, just as using a frenzy card is a specific case noted on the card.  As for actions that you can do twice, but you state are essentially attacks, I would say as long as they do not say "attack action" they can be used twice, however cry havoc specifically states attack action.



#5 uppTagg

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:04 AM

 Oh Cripple… one of the best hero abilities in game IMO. That skill has single-handedly won the heroes two otherwise close encounters. As an OL it makes me rage inside that there is no OL-card that can deal with conditions.. :|



#6 n3rd

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:47 PM

uppTagg said:

 Oh Cripple… one of the best hero abilities in game IMO. That skill has single-handedly won the heroes two otherwise close encounters. As an OL it makes me rage inside that there is no OL-card that can deal with conditions.. :|

Indeed. I find this extremely annoying. At the very least lieutenants should definitely have a way to remove conditions.






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