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Help me understand this card - Wyrm


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#1 Paul Grogan

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:42 AM

It's late and I'm not thinking straight, but I'm not sure I understand this card:

Wyrm
3 [Credits]: Break ice subroutine on a piece of ice with 0 or less strength.
1 [Credits]: Ice has -1 strength.
1 [Credits]: +1 strength.

 

So, it only breaks subs when the ice is Str 0.  But it starts off Str 1 and can be pumped up.  So, why bother pumping it up? 

If I'm missing something obvious, let me know.

 

Also, one player tonight asked me if he could just use the middle ability of the card but use another ice breaker to break it.
The rules state:  

"There is no limit to the number of installed cards a Runner can use to interact with the encountered ice, but he generally only needs one icebreaker."
so I said he could, but something didnt feel quite right :)

This line in the rules also baffles me "Remember that before an icebreaker can interact with a piece of ice, the icebreaker’s strength must be equal to or higher than the encountered ice’s strength."

This to one player read that you cant use any abilities on an icebreaker unless your strength matches it, including boosting to get more strength, which is clearly wrong, so I'm not sure what this line means.  If it mean "can break a subroutine" rather than "can interact" it would be clearer.



#2 Anarchosyn

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:48 AM

Paul Grogan said:

 

It's late and I'm not thinking straight, but I'm not sure I understand this card:

Wyrm
3 [Credits]: Break ice subroutine on a piece of ice with 0 or less strength.
1 [Credits]: Ice has -1 strength.
1 [Credits]: +1 strength.

 

So, it only breaks subs when the ice is Str 0.  But it starts off Str 1 and can be pumped up.  So, why bother pumping it up? 

If I'm missing something obvious, let me know.

 

Also, one player tonight asked me if he could just use the middle ability of the card but use another ice breaker to break it.
The rules state:  

"There is no limit to the number of installed cards a Runner can use to interact with the encountered ice, but he generally only needs one icebreaker."
so I said he could, but something didnt feel quite right :)

This line in the rules also baffles me "Remember that before an icebreaker can interact with a piece of ice, the icebreaker’s strength must be equal to or higher than the encountered ice’s strength."

This to one player read that you cant use any abilities on an icebreaker unless your strength matches it, including boosting to get more strength, which is clearly wrong, so I'm not sure what this line means.  If it mean "can break a subroutine" rather than "can interact" it would be clearer.

 

 

 

Wyrm makes sense only when you think about it in combination with other cards (I asked a similar question on the Geek a few weeks back). The example cited that helped me appreciate Wyrm was Ninja + Wyrm vs. Shadow -- the combo is more cost effective than either icebreaker used alone. Wyrm also ties into Parasite to a degree (sorry, this site blows for linking images or URLs for cards, but I assume you know how to look them up at Cardgamesdb.com). Oh, and let us not forget it's one of the rare icebreakers not tied to a particular form of ice. 

As to why pump Wyrm's Strength, the Strength of the Icebreaker needs to match the Strength of the ice to interact with it.. so, if Wyrm comes across Cell Portal (Str 5), it would need to be strengthened by 4 credits before it could even touch the ice. 

 

Here's a link to the thread I referenced above: javascript:void(0);/*1346194502847*/

 

+ Shadow: javascript:void(0);/*1346194491357*/

+ Ninja: javascript:void(0);/*1346194577617*/

+ Wyrm: javascript:void(0);/*1346194635811*/ 

 

p.s. Just finished reading the text at the bottom of your message. Remind the player that boosting an icebreaker is an interaction between the runner and the icebreaker, not an interaction between the icebreaker and the ice. The rules as they are written are clear and concise -- an icebreaker can't affect ice unless it matches the strength, however you can interact with the breakers for pumping purposes no problem. Oh, and to be explicit, yes -- yes you can use multiple breakers on ice, though it's a rare card that would make that meaningful.. this just happens to be one of those cards. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#3 Khudzlin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:07 PM

Well, increasing an icebreaker's strength does not involve the ICE, so it's not interacting with it. On the other hand, breaking a subroutine or decreasing an ICE's strength is interacting with it (which is why you need to pump Wyrm up first). You can use Wyrm to decrease an ICE's strength, then use another icebreaker to break the subroutines (since some icebreakers cannot be pumped up, this can definitely be useful).



#4 Paul Grogan

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:26 PM

ok, I get it now.

In order for Wyrm to use the ability that reduces the strength of ICE, it needs to be able to interact with it.

So, if Wyrm comes across Enigma (Str 2), I need to boost Wyrm by 1 to Str 2 before I can then use ability #2.

So if I also have Crypsis installed too.  I can then spend 2 credits to reduce the ICE to strength 0 and then 1 credit to break.  Yes, I know I could have just boosted Crypsis to strength 2 and broke for the same cost… :)



#5 Anarchosyn

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:35 PM

Paul Grogan said:

ok, I get it now.

In order for Wyrm to use the ability that reduces the strength of ICE, it needs to be able to interact with it.

So, if Wyrm comes across Enigma (Str 2), I need to boost Wyrm by 1 to Str 2 before I can then use ability #2.

So if I also have Crypsis installed too.  I can then spend 2 credits to reduce the ICE to strength 0 and then 1 credit to break.  Yes, I know I could have just boosted Crypsis to strength 2 and broke for the same cost… :)

Exactly.

Also, remember Parasite trashes ice when it gets to zero strength -- a Runner using both (most likely an Anarch) could expedite that crash.

 

 


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#6 Treguard

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:51 PM

Anarchosyn has it. Wyrm synergises well in the Anarch deck, comboing with Parasite, Yog.0 and others. It feels like there's solid integration in the Anarch programs, which can be both good and bad thing depending on how capable a Corp is at trashing programs.






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