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#1 ZombiEd

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:27 PM

During the confrontation phase of a run, after the runner approaches an unrezzed ice does the runner decide to increase the strength of the icebreaker before or after the Corp opts to rez the ice?

Once ice is rezzed, if it has a higher strength than the icebreaker, does the runner have an option to increase the strength at that point?

If the runner doesn't have enough credits to increase the icebreaker strength to interact with and break subroutines what happens?

If the runner can't interact with the ice, do the subroutines still activate?



#2 AussieKSU

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

ZombiEd said:

During the confrontation phase of a run, after the runner approaches an unrezzed ice does the runner decide to increase the strength of the icebreaker before or after the Corp opts to rez the ice?

Once ice is rezzed, if it has a higher strength than the icebreaker, does the runner have an option to increase the strength at that point?

If the runner doesn't have enough credits to increase the icebreaker strength to interact with and break subroutines what happens?

If the runner can't interact with the ice, do the subroutines still activate?

During the confrontation phase of a run, after the runner approaches an unrezzed ice does the runner decide to increase the strength of the icebreaker before or after the Corp opts to rez the ice?

 

After the corp rezzes the ice. If the ice is rezzed, you then encounter that ice and may then increase your ice breaker's strength.

Once ice is rezzed, if it has a higher strength than the icebreaker, does the runner have an option to increase the strength at that point?

 

Of course!

If the runner doesn't have enough credits to increase the icebreaker strength to interact with and break subroutines what happens?

 

You have to face the consequences of running unprepared. The subroutines that are not broken will have their effects take place.

If the runner can't interact with the ice, do the subroutines still activate?

 

Absoutly. By "the runner can't interact", I assume you mean if the icebreakers the runner has do not meet the strength of the ice, and therefore cannot interact with it… You betcha the subroutines activate!



#3 ZombiEd

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:05 PM

Thanks that is what I thought.  What generated the question was the demo video from GenCon.  In the video the runner initiated a run, the first piece of ice was rezzed and was of a higher strength than the icebreaker.  The runner (a FF demo person) declared the run bounced and since it was his last click, his turn ended.  None of the subroutines on the ice were resolved.  I didn't know if that was just a mistake by the demo person or the way it was to be played.

So after the first piece of ice it is best to Jack out, as that doesn't activate any subroutines rather than continuing a run if you can't beef up your icebreaker.



#4 Damoel

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:57 PM

ZombiEd said:

Thanks that is what I thought.  What generated the question was the demo video from GenCon.  In the video the runner initiated a run, the first piece of ice was rezzed and was of a higher strength than the icebreaker.  The runner (a FF demo person) declared the run bounced and since it was his last click, his turn ended.  None of the subroutines on the ice were resolved.  I didn't know if that was just a mistake by the demo person or the way it was to be played.

So after the first piece of ice it is best to Jack out, as that doesn't activate any subroutines rather than continuing a run if you can't beef up your icebreaker.

 

Depends on the base strength of the icebreaker, but it is something to keep in mind. On the other hand, if you feel comfortable and the corp is low on credits, if you keep going he has to make a potentially difficult choice between going broke to rez the ice or let you through. It really depends on the deck though, as ifthat ice is bad enough, things could get akward.


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#5 AussieKSU

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:00 PM

That was a mistake by the FF employee. Consult the run sequence diagram as to when the runner may jack out.



#6 AussieKSU

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:08 PM

ZombiEd said:

So after the first piece of ice it is best to Jack out, as that doesn't activate any subroutines rather than continuing a run if you can't beef up your icebreaker.

 

That tooooootally depends.

How many bits does the corp have?

Are you planning on making another run after this, if so, making the corp rez another piece of ice on this server so he/she cannot rez a piece of ice on another server may be a good idea.

If the corp does have some bits, if it is a small amount, you may want to continue the run even if you have no resources left to break any ice. Low rez ice is typically underwhelming.

Forcing the corp to rez ice can really put the pressure on him. Making runs against a datafort so that another one is left vulnerable is the bread and butter of net runner.

 



#7 byronczimmer

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:36 AM

ZombiEd said:

During the confrontation phase of a run, after the runner approaches an unrezzed ice does the runner decide to increase the strength of the icebreaker before or after the Corp opts to rez the ice?

Once ice is rezzed, if it has a higher strength than the icebreaker, does the runner have an option to increase the strength at that point?

If the runner doesn't have enough credits to increase the icebreaker strength to interact with and break subroutines what happens?

If the runner can't interact with the ice, do the subroutines still activate?

 

I think there are some basic rules misunderstandings in these questions.

1) Runner approaches ICE.

2) If ICE is unrezzed, Corp may choose to rez ICE.

3) If ICE is now rezzed (because it already was or because the Corp just rezzed it), Runner encounters ICE

4) If Runner wants to break any subroutines on the ICE
4a: Choose an Icebreaker to interact with the ICE
4b: If chosen Icebreaker is not equal or greater in strength to ICE, Runner pays to increase strength of icebreaker per a function of the icebreaker card
4c: if chosen Icebreaker is now equal or greater in strength to ICE, Runner pays to break subroutines they do not want to take effect.
4d: Corp activates all unbroken subroutines in the order listed on the card

5) If the Run is not over, Runner passes piece of ICE and all icebreaker strengths return to base value (exception: some Shaper programs)
5a: if there's more ICE, go back to 1
5b: if there's not more ICE, access the Server Contents

 

Note, there is no reason to ever boost an icebreaker to MORE than the ICE being encountered, unless due to a stepping function (like Ninja which is boosted in increments of 5 STR).  Paying to exceed the strength of an encountered ICE when you already equal or exceed the strength of the encountered ICE is a waste of credits.

 

If the Runner encounters ICE and leaves any subroutines unbroken, they all happen.  If the effect is 'trash a program', the Runner loses a program of the Corp's choice.

If it's net damage the Runner will discard from hand.

Etc, etc, etc.

 



#8 AussieKSU

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:45 AM

byronczimmer said:

 

If the Runner encounters ICE and leaves any subroutines unbroken, they all happen.

 

 

He means the all the unbroken subroutines happen.



#9 byronczimmer

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:48 AM

AussieKSU said:

byronczimmer said:

 

If the Runner encounters ICE and leaves any subroutines unbroken, they all happen.

 

 

He means the all the unbroken subroutines happen.

Yes, all unbroken routines happen.



#10 Los Grak

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:11 AM

 Wait. Once a runner gets through a piece of ICE then the ICEbreaker goes back to base strength?



#11 UnhappyYak

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:12 AM

 Also, how do you know that the corp chooses which program to trash when a "trash one program" subroutine triggers?



#12 Paul Grogan

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:50 AM

UnhappyYak said:

 Also, how do you know that the corp chooses which program to trash when a "trash one program" subroutine triggers?

 

That is the way it always used to work.  I couldnt find anything in the rules specifically stating that the corp chooses.  If it is in there, please can someone point it out, otherwise, it is an omission that needs to be in the FAQ as I've already had 2 players I've played against online telling me that they thought the runner chose.

It must be from the corps point of view though, because it is his ICE.  Also, other cards say "Do one 1 net damage", indicating that they are written from the corp's perspective.



#13 Khudzlin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:59 AM

Because on corp cards, "you" is the corp, just like on runner cards, "you" is the runner. So, it would take specific language to give that choice to the runner.



#14 Paul Grogan

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:10 PM

byronczimmer said:

4) If Runner wants to break any subroutines on the ICE
4a: Choose an Icebreaker to interact with the ICE
 

 

 

This makes it sound like the runner can only ever use 1 Icebreaker on each piece of ICE.

But from the rules: "There is no limit to the number of installed cards a Runner can use to interact with the encountered ice, but he generally only needs one icebreaker"

"generally", meaning you could use more than one.  I'm thinking of the Ice strength reduction effect on Wyrm.  Can you use that to reduce the strength.  With the wording shown above, I cant see why you cant use Wyrm to lower the strength of an ICE, even if you use another breaker to break it.



#15 Paul Grogan

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:14 PM

ignore this post, i found out how to edit!



#16 Los Grak

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:16 PM

Paul Grogan said:

byronczimmer said:

 

ZombiEd said:

 

During the confrontation phase of a run, after the runner approaches an unrezzed ice does the runner decide to increase the strength of the icebreaker before or after the Corp opts to rez the ice?

Once ice is rezzed, if it has a higher strength than the icebreaker, does the runner have an option to increase the strength at that point?

If the runner doesn't have enough credits to increase the icebreaker strength to interact with and break subroutines what happens?

If the runner can't interact with the ice, do the subroutines still activate?

 

 

 

I think there are some basic rules misunderstandings in these questions.

1) Runner approaches ICE.

2) If ICE is unrezzed, Corp may choose to rez ICE.

3) If ICE is now rezzed (because it already was or because the Corp just rezzed it), Runner encounters ICE

4) If Runner wants to break any subroutines on the ICE
4a: Choose an Icebreaker to interact with the ICE
4b: If chosen Icebreaker is not equal or greater in strength to ICE, Runner pays to increase strength of icebreaker per a function of the icebreaker card
4c: if chosen Icebreaker is now equal or greater in strength to ICE, Runner pays to break subroutines they do not want to take effect.
4d: Corp activates all unbroken subroutines in the order listed on the card

5) If the Run is not over, Runner passes piece of ICE and all icebreaker strengths return to base value (exception: some Shaper programs)
5a: if there's more ICE, go back to 1
5b: if there's not more ICE, access the Server Contents

 

Note, there is no reason to ever boost an icebreaker to MORE than the ICE being encountered, unless due to a stepping function (like Ninja which is boosted in increments of 5 STR).  Paying to exceed the strength of an encountered ICE when you already equal or exceed the strength of the encountered ICE is a waste of credits.

 

If the Runner encounters ICE and leaves any subroutines unbroken, they all happen.  If the effect is 'trash a program', the Runner loses a program of the Corp's choice.

If it's net damage the Runner will discard from hand.

Etc, etc, etc.

 

 

 

byronczimmer said:

 

4) If Runner wants to break any subroutines on the ICE
4a: Choose an Icebreaker to interact with the ICE
 

 

 

This makes it sound like the runner can only ever use 1 Icebreaker on each piece of ICE.

But from the rules: "There is no limit to the number of installed cards a Runner can use to interact with the encountered ice, but he generally only needs one icebreaker"

"generally", meaning you could use more than one.  I'm thinking of the Ice strength reduction effect on Wyrm.  Can you use that to reduce the strength.  With the wording shown above, I cant see why you cant use Wyrm to lower the strength of an ICE, even if you use another breaker to break it.

 

That doesn't seem very efficient to me.



#17 Paul Grogan

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:32 PM

Los Grak said:

That doesn't seem very efficient to me.

 

But Wrym costs 3 to break a subroutine of strength 0.  So, if you encountered Archer, you could spend 5 to boost Wyrm so that it can interact with it.  Then spend 3 to drop Archer to strength 3, and then break the subs using Mimic for a cost of 4.  Total cost = 12

Mimic alone cannot get through Archer, and if you just use Wyrm, it would cost 5 to boost, then 6 to reduce the strength to 0, followed by another 12 to break the 4 subs = 23 in total.

Is my maths right?



#18 Los Grak

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:37 AM

 I wasn't thinking in terms of combining ICEbreakers to get through subroutines. Forgive.

 

I've only played runner once so far so I'm still not that familiar with how it works. However, could you please verify for me whether or not an ICEbreaker returns to base strength after breaking all subroutines on a piece of ICE?



#19 Treguard

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:08 AM

An ICEbreaker returns to its listed strength for each new encounter. 



#20 radiskull

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:31 AM

Los Grak said:

I've only played runner once so far so I'm still not that familiar with how it works. However, could you please verify for me whether or not an ICEbreaker returns to base strength after breaking all subroutines on a piece of ICE?

Rulebook, p.16, "Increasing an Icebreaker's Strengh":

After an encounter with a piece of ice, the icebreaker’s strength returns to the value shown on its card.






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