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Force sensitivity and non-force users


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#1 Jegergryte

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:51 AM

I was wondering, as my book is still on the other side of the atlantic afaik.

If I want my character to be force sensitive, but not a force user… is that possible? I mean, in WEG I could be force sensitive, but know no force powers and have nothing in either sense, control or alter (not sure of the ffg names for these). In D20 I have to waste a feat, which wasn't a good thing, but within that system it made sense. Still I didn't necessarily have training or knowledge about my force sensitivity.

Is this possible in this incarnation of the game? Can I spend xp (or whatever is needed) to be force sensitive WITHOUT having any force powers/talents/skills? I mean, can I be a non-force user as such, but still be force sensitive?


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#2 KommissarK

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:54 AM

I have not explicitly read through the Force section, but, Force Sensitive as a specialty doesn't by default have any "powers" as a part of it. Its just a subtle improvement to things (e.g. an improvement to the vigilance skill (used for non-prepared initiative checks)).



#3 Jegergryte

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:03 AM

Right, the "danger sense" thing?

Cool, I can live with that. But how does the specialities work in the greater scheme of things? I mean, I think I read somewhere that you have a limited amount of specialities… is it these specialities that give you access to talents (or whatever those trees are called) ?


Make sure your brain is engaged, before putting your mouth into gear.

"What about the future...? We can only hope, we cannot however account for the minutiae of the quanta, as all accidents in an infinite space are inevitable."

GMLovlie's/Jegergryte's Cubicle direct link to supplements here.


#4 GoblynByte

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:47 AM

Yes, it is the specializations that give you access to the trees.  Each specialization is, in a sense, a single talent tree. As far as I know, Force Exile counts as one of those three.

 



#5 awayputurwpn

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:47 AM

 That's correct, in that the Force-Sensitive Exile talent tree is one "specialization" of which you can have a maximum of three. However, actual Force Sensitivity is measured by Force Rating. When you buy into the Force Exile talent tree, you automatically get a Force Rating of 1.

 

Question: does anyone know if it's possible to buy a higher Force rating at character creation? I couldn't find it in the rules anywhere; the only way I found to increase it is by buying the 5th-tier talent Force Rating. Anyway…any help would be hot.



#6 Venthrac

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:02 AM

awayputurwpn said:

 That's correct, in that the Force-Sensitive Exile talent tree is one "specialization" of which you can have a maximum of three. However, actual Force Sensitivity is measured by Force Rating. When you buy into the Force Exile talent tree, you automatically get a Force Rating of 1.

 

Question: does anyone know if it's possible to buy a higher Force rating at character creation? I couldn't find it in the rules anywhere; the only way I found to increase it is by buying the 5th-tier talent Force Rating. Anyway…any help would be hot.

No, it's not. Either that was left out by accident or left out deliberately. I am guessing it's the latter, because higher-level Force-users are simply not intended to be a focus of this game. You will probably have to wait until 2015 and the planned Force and Destiny RPG to get that.



#7 Shakespearian_Soldier

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 06:14 AM

awayputurwpn said:

That's correct, in that the Force-Sensitive Exile talent tree is one "specialization" of which you can have a maximum of three. However, actual Force Sensitivity is measured by Force Rating. When you buy into the Force Exile talent tree, you automatically get a Force Rating of 1.

I've got two questions, if you'll indulge me (my book's in-country, but as tomorrow is a bank holiday, I'll need to wait until Tuesday to get it): first of all, is Force Exile the only specialisation available Force-wise (I'm aware that all "careers" have multiple specialisations available, but from the sounds of it there's only 1 such choice for Force users); secondly, how many of your Force options are classed as "permanent"? I ask because I know that you can only gain three specialisations, and to gain another you have to drop a previous choice, thus losing all powers/options not listed as "permanent" - how much of the Exile option vanishes if you do this?


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#8 $hamrock

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:22 PM

Shakespearian_Soldier said:

awayputurwpn said:

That's correct, in that the Force-Sensitive Exile talent tree is one "specialization" of which you can have a maximum of three. However, actual Force Sensitivity is measured by Force Rating. When you buy into the Force Exile talent tree, you automatically get a Force Rating of 1.

 

I've got two questions, if you'll indulge me (my book's in-country, but as tomorrow is a bank holiday, I'll need to wait until Tuesday to get it): first of all, is Force Exile the only specialisation available Force-wise (I'm aware that all "careers" have multiple specialisations available, but from the sounds of it there's only 1 such choice for Force users); secondly, how many of your Force options are classed as "permanent"? I ask because I know that you can only gain three specialisations, and to gain another you have to drop a previous choice, thus losing all powers/options not listed as "permanent" - how much of the Exile option vanishes if you do this?

I don't have the book in front of me currently, but I believe the force option cost a small fortune to get, but you could get it on any character. Kinda like it came at a price type thing.



#9 cetiken

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:43 PM

 10 points for out-of-career spec (Force Sensitive Exile) and you get a force rating 1. 

Each force power will cost you 10 points to learn. I recomend only one or two. The powers can be upgraded for more points (5-15 should give a good trick or two.). You might want some force talents. They are costed like any other talent tree. 

It's definatly doable for a starting PC, but your stats or skills will be lower for one trick that dosnt seem super reliable (except for ongoing powers - those seem good.)



#10 Chaoswarlord

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:56 AM

cetiken said:

 10 points for out-of-career spec (Force Sensitive Exile) and you get a force rating 1. 

Each force power will cost you 10 points to learn. I recomend only one or two. The powers can be upgraded for more points (5-15 should give a good trick or two.). You might want some force talents. They are costed like any other talent tree. 

It's definatly doable for a starting PC, but your stats or skills will be lower for one trick that dosnt seem super reliable (except for ongoing powers - those seem good.)

 

That's my understanding as well. You don't choose to be a force-user, but you can choose to be force sensitive from one of the other classes. You choose a class, and one of the three specialties under that class as your base. If you want to choose a second specialty, you can take one from your career class for 5 points, one from another career for 10 points, or the force tree for 10 points as if it was an outside of career choice. 

 

Humans, if I remember right, can take a second specialty for free during creation, but you don't get any of the class skills or talents for free. You just don't have to pay for the second specialty. 

 

I really like how they're handling force powers for now. Yes, you can be force sensitive and have a few abilities, but as a starting character, I'm not sure yet if I'd recommend that since you'll be shorting yourself on other abilities that could be more critical to your career choice. But I haven't made any characters yet, just read through it, so I may be wrong on that. ;)

 

CW :)



#11 nyriv1

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 07:44 AM

"Humans, if I remember right, can take a second specialty for free during creation, but you don't get any of the class skills or talents for free. You just don't have to pay for the second specialty. "

 

 The Human's second specialization bonus is only good within their chosen career, so it wouldn't pertain to the Force-sensitive Exile



#12 KommissarK

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 08:41 AM

Upon further reading:

Yes, the Force Sensitive tree is exactly what the OP is looking. Its not direct force powers, but rather the subtle advantages one who is in touch with the force can get over time.

 

@The human specialization:

Gotta say I'm actually not a big fan of how it was handled in the game. Obviously, it can be dropped as a specialization, but it seems too likely to lock a player into a certain career, instead of allowing a broader generalization. Personally I would of liked maybe "the first specialization is free if in career, or 5xp if out of career"

@Force powers in general

Influence power…. oh my. Best salesman ever. "These are the droids…. you are looking to buy." My beef is there is essentially no way to resist it as an effect. They make a test, if they get light side dots, you feel that way. Obviously, wouldn't really be used on players, but it seems quite prone to abuse.



#13 Inksplat

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:09 AM

KommissarK said:

Upon further reading:

Yes, the Force Sensitive tree is exactly what the OP is looking. Its not direct force powers, but rather the subtle advantages one who is in touch with the force can get over time.

 

@The human specialization:

Gotta say I'm actually not a big fan of how it was handled in the game. Obviously, it can be dropped as a specialization, but it seems too likely to lock a player into a certain career, instead of allowing a broader generalization. Personally I would of liked maybe "the first specialization is free if in career, or 5xp if out of career"

@Force powers in general

Influence power…. oh my. Best salesman ever. "These are the droids…. you are looking to buy." My beef is there is essentially no way to resist it as an effect. They make a test, if they get light side dots, you feel that way. Obviously, wouldn't really be used on players, but it seems quite prone to abuse.

Does Force Influence ever fail during the OT? I can't think of a single time that it does.



#14 KommissarK

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:18 AM

Strong minded individuals. Jabba ignored Luke's attempt at force influence/mind tricks (or at least was able to recognize that is how Luke got in). To my knowledge, hutts are not immune to the force. Obi-Wan referenced that it really is meant for the weak-minded. There is no such way of measuring that in this system.

Its more an observation that if a jedi and sith are engaged in lightsaber combat, one could very well say "I'm going to make use of my Force Power: Influence ability," roll 2-3 force die, roll the needed single white pip (or heck, rely upon the dark side, give the GM a destiny point, and pass), and automatically claim that their opponent now sees them as an ally, and feels that their previous fighting was due to a misunderstanding/trickery by a third party.

Nothing about the power can be resisted. It just happens. Once again, I recognize this is the role of the GM, but still, it shouldn't have to result in an explanation from the GM that he is expressly breaking the rules to prevent a player from destroying an encounter.



#15 Inksplat

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:35 AM

KommissarK said:

Strong minded individuals. Jabba ignored Luke's attempt at force influence/mind tricks (or at least was able to recognize that is how Luke got in). To my knowledge, hutts are not immune to the force. Obi-Wan referenced that it really is meant for the weak-minded. There is no such way of measuring that in this system.

Its more an observation that if a jedi and sith are engaged in lightsaber combat, one could very well say "I'm going to make use of my Force Power: Influence ability," roll 2-3 force die, roll the needed single white pip (or heck, rely upon the dark side, give the GM a destiny point, and pass), and automatically claim that their opponent now sees them as an ally, and feels that their previous fighting was due to a misunderstanding/trickery by a third party.

Nothing about the power can be resisted. It just happens. Once again, I recognize this is the role of the GM, but still, it shouldn't have to result in an explanation from the GM that he is expressly breaking the rules to prevent a player from destroying an encounter.

That's right. I forgot about Jabba.

And just to be clear, I don't disagree that a blatant rule wouldn't be a good idea, just that most characters seem pretty susceptible.

Seems like the simplest way is that Minions & Henchmen are susceptible, but your big bads aren't.



#16 KommissarK

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:41 AM

I'd probably run it as a minions/henchmen thing as well. Still, my initial point was how useful such a skill would actually be in a "gray" setting like EotE. A force sensitive salesman can do quite a bit. Certainly, it might not be the most force user like thing out there, but they could hit about FP 1-2. And another offshoot of the influence power is that it lets you roll your force power in force dice (with light side pips acting as successes) on pretty much any social interaction. And that that roll can be modified by falling to the dark side as well (i.e. the whole die becomes a bunch of successes, just that dark side invokes minor strain, and gives the GM a destiny point).



#17 Inksplat

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:45 AM

KommissarK said:

I'd probably run it as a minions/henchmen thing as well. Still, my initial point was how useful such a skill would actually be in a "gray" setting like EotE. A force sensitive salesman can do quite a bit. Certainly, it might not be the most force user like thing out there, but they could hit about FP 1-2. And another offshoot of the influence power is that it lets you roll your force power in force dice (with light side pips acting as successes) on pretty much any social interaction. And that that roll can be modified by falling to the dark side as well (i.e. the whole die becomes a bunch of successes, just that dark side invokes minor strain, and gives the GM a destiny point).

Yeah, definitely useful. If you're worried about it, though, its easy enough to have Vader show up if a player is abusing it. Probably don't even have to do much other than have him appear in orbit, and I'd imagine the troublesome player would straighten up pretty quick.

That would actually be kind of amusing..watching a player's eyes get big when they realize Vader is there hunting them.






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