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melee vs Draeadnought

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#1 Herr-Ethic



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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:56 PM

I have a simple question. I can imagine dodging a Chaos Dread's melee attack, but can you actually parry it? if yes, do you use any size modifiers or anything?


And maybe one more - how should a Defiler with 25 WS be of any danger in Close Combat, it has lower chance to hit me, than I miss it ? or am I forgetting about something?



#2 KommissarK



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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:12 AM

For the dreadnought… I'm not sure how to describe it, but the profiles I'm seeing make no mention of the normally present "this attack cannot be parried," so I would rule yes. If only because the players need it.

As far as a defilier. Its scary in close combat because it has lightning attack and 2 claws. 4 attacks in a turn, and sure, they might miss, but not every PC is a crazy high doding/parry character, and those things will mess you up.  Also, I'd be cautious of encourging the group to move into melee with it. It has enough high damage blast weapons that it just has to move out of range, and fire them. The stat block I'm looking at is in Tempest Rising, and that one allows firing all ranged weapons in a single half action. Battle Cannon, havoc launcher hitting the same ground the players are all piled up at (since they were in melee). Sure, it might miss, but thats what blast is for. Then the reaper autocannon supresses the party. Only fear would be the party getting all the free strikes off on the target.

#3 herichimo



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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:37 AM

First off, a parry isn't a block. You don't stop an enemies attack cold in it's tracks when you parry. For one thing, outside of hollywood, stopping an enemies swinging sword dead in its tracks is impossible to do in most cases. Rather, a parry is a deflection of the incoming attack. You are knocking the sword to the side, where it isn't hitting you anymore.


Parrying a dreadnought though IS a difficult situation to answer. According to the rules, you can parry any melee attack, but its up to your GM though to rule on these situations, to use common sense or even real world mechanics to determine, as the Core rulebook says, "When adjudicating difficulty, common sense should prevail. Regardless of the usual limits on test penalties, some Actions are simply impossible (DW, p.244)."

As for size, according to the rules question fellows, there are no size modifiers to melee attacks. This includes parrying, you never claim size bonuses when making or evading melee attacks.


A defiler is a neat enemy. As for parrying, keep in mind the previous paragraphs. As a GM though you have to keep in mind the characters (the defiler in this case) abilities, what actions are available to them, and what the character might do in any situation.

First off the defiler has the lightning attack talent, this allows it to make 3 melee attacks with a full action. Thats a lot of attacks.

Second a defiler may both shoot and melee in the same turn. It may shoot ALL of its weapons as a single half action (it can do this even if it isn't meleeing as well) and then is able to use another half action to make a single melee attack.

Third, a defiler's weapons seem more geared towards vehicle mayhem than infantry killing. When trying to punch tanks I'd give the thing some hefty bonuses. I mean a tank isn't agile or weavy as an enemy soldier would be. I'd at least rule a tank is Unaware, and if the vehicle isn't even moving then I'd consider it a helpless target, for melee at least.

Fourth, a higher WS doesn't benefit anyone if you are grappled. I'd imagine a daemonically possessed engine of death would take just as much pleasure of slowly crushing the life out of its target as smashing it to a pulp. A defiler has weapons, but like a power fist, these are also hands so they cross the lines of being both unarmed (for grappling) and armed with a weapon. Plus, according to the rules fellows, you may use grapple attacks with Swift attack (and most likely lightning attack as well). Which means the defiler gets 3 chances to start a grapple against an enemy in one turn. Or gets to shoot all its guns and 1 chance to grapple. Once grappled the difiler is s75 (USx2), one size level larger than a space marine, and counts its full claw damage as unarmed damage. That means it gets 3 extra DoS (2 for US + 1 for being bigger) to the space marines 2, and does a ton of damage. I'd even rule the defiler could start a grapple in one turn, maintain it as a free or half action, allowing it to pick up and carry around its grappled target while it continued to smash others in hand to hand with its other arm (it is daemonically possessed after all).

So the defiler can be a very dangerous opponent in hand to hand combat, GMs just have to use a little creative thinking sometimes.

#4 Herr-Ethic



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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:02 AM

Actually you are right, i didnt think about grappling at all, that would sound fun. From DM point of view :P epic death…

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