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Poor Crimson Fists :( and other chapters


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#1 Sigsmund

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:43 PM

 

Hello all well first time I have been on a forum in a long time so forgive me if I do something stupid. But something has come to my attention very recently.My first Deathwatch character was a Crimson fist apothecary by the name of Argo Cortez he has fought many a xeno, heretic and deamon over the years.(Yes he has been in many deathwatch games over the years). He has become kind of a legend in my game shop that I frequent to the point where he has appeared in deathwatch campaigns that I have not even be a part of as a dreadnaught, a chief apothecary, even a watch fortress commander.

 

So as you all can imagine I was very pumped to see that Crimson Fists are in Honour the chapter with all their new special rules, solo modes, squad modes,psychic powers etc. And not just an offshoot of the imperial fist that they were in rites. So another deathwatch game has come up and I was excited to give old Argo a new lease on life with all the new rules made just for him. Then I noticed an oversight or what I believe to be an oversight in the book. For the Chapter advances for the Crimsons Fists they have two talents for 600xp each Die Hard and True Grit.

 

This was strange because I remembered that Space Marines start with True Grit. To no surprise I found out that indeed they do start with it. Then I remembered something about Die hard and found that it is useless for it states that when testing to see if a character were to die from blood loss they may roll twice for the test but as I remember and confirmed due to the Larraman's organ Space marines do not suffer blood loss making Die Hard useless.

 

I mentioned this to a friend and he was making a Carcharadon and saw they come with the ability to speak high gothic but as we both knew all Space Marines can do that so what was the point.So now we are looking for ways to solve our problems and fix these oversights. We have come up with a few idea but I figure I would ask the community at large got any ideas or found anymore oversights that need fixing. Just a thought

 

Thanks in advance your friend and fellow player

Sigs

 



#2 Captain Ventris

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:08 AM

Well, technically Warp Weapons CAN make even a Space Marine test against Blood loss, so that's not a common usage, but it COULD come in handy. Depends on the campaign, I suppose. True Grit seems like a legit oversight, and I didn't understand the Carcharodon High Gothic thing either.



#3 afterimagedan

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:35 AM

 I also feel like Red Scorpions have been shafted a bit in Honour the Chapter. Huge amount of Tactics training isn't really appealing, especially when it is highly dependent on the GM to provide reasons for the Tactics skill to be used. Also, the redundancy of the skills that Raptors get when it comes to long range shooting. Also, the Blood Ravens. Looking at the stuff the core book chapters get compared to many of the Honour the Chapter chapters, I am wondering why that happened. Am I missing something? Just compare some of the amazing talents Blood Angels get to other chapters and it makes me cry a little inside.

From my perspective, people play this game for the combat. It is combat based, much less than Rogue Trader (which we started with and craved more combat). That being said, the chapters in this came should be pretty balanced when it comes to combat and I do feel like some of the chapters have been shafted. In the core rulebook, the original 6 are pretty balanced. Honour the Chapter, however, I think was pretty disappointing. I was so excited for that book but I think some of the chapters got the shaft. 



#4 Face Eater

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:09 AM

 I don't think all the Full Chapter write ups in Honor the Chapter are particularly worse than the original chapters. The Flesh Tearers for example seem to be pretty well focused and should be able to match up favourably to other melee classes (assault and Librarian), and perhaps as a Sanguinary priest. 

Of course they might also be benefiting from being a successor of one of the original chapters which have advanced chapter write ups already.

 

It annoys me when pointless talents appear on an advancement list, not as much as when it is 'gifted' in the place of an stat advancement or useful talent but some what detracts from their options.

For the Crimson Fists I can see why these talents were chosen, they are a tough ol, last stand feel about them, so it could have been replaced by a unique talent that reduces, ignores temporarily some critical effects or something. 

But really, I feel that they're actual stats are a bit tunnel visioned on that Fall of Rynn's world picture from the original Rogue Trader. Awesome though it is, I would have liked some their long and varied history to be represented. They have more battles against traitors (bother Horus Heresy traitors and being sent after renegade chapters) so some Astartes lore and perhaps a hatred of traitors would have been nice. After all, I'm sure there's a good few other chapters that have only really distinguished themselves against Orks.

Also, and this isn't just CF's, but with a full write up, Chapters that were successors seems to be overly constrained by the stat bonuses. Seeing as CF are all about being tough SOB's and were the less zealous of the the old Legion when it was split +5 to Wp and T rings truer to me than +10 Wp, same with Flesh Tearers. Would Str and Ws have been better?

It wouldn't take more than line to add it to future Successor chapter entries to 'create as per chapter X except stat bonuses are replaced with X and X', obviously it's still great to be UM successors but they could always have +5 to any and one specific +5 stat.

(Personally I've been house ruling that the codex chapters, including the slightly off codex ones like BA and DA, must choose at least one of the two advances (can take both) but can also have one from any other stat. Which I think works nicely).



#5 afterimagedan

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:26 AM

 True, some of the Chapters are good. Flesh Tearers and Carcharodons, for example. 

Face Eater: "Personally I've been house ruling that the codex chapters, including the slightly off codex ones like BA and DA, must choose at least one of the two advances (can take both) but can also have one from any other stat. Which I think works nicely."

Face Eater, could you explain this a little further? I'm intrigued. 



#6 Face Eater

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:03 AM

afterimagedan said:

Face Eater: "Personally I've been house ruling that the codex chapters, including the slightly off codex ones like BA and DA, must choose at least one of the two advances (can take both) but can also have one from any other stat. Which I think works nicely."

Face Eater, could you explain this a little further? I'm intrigued. 

OK, so for a Blood Angel (one of my players was), the listed stat advances are +5 Ws and +5 Ag.

So I'd let the player start with either +5 Ws and +5 Ag, +5 Ws and +5 to any stat or +5 Ag and +5 to any stat.

I think it just makes the none obvious specialists chapter combinations a bit more viable. Which was useful as my BA was playing a Tactical Marine.

Technically only Space Wolves and Black Templars aren't at all codex but even then Space Wolves are supposed to be flexible in their own way, I never had to make the choice though as I only had an Angel of Absolution, Storm Warden, BA and Iron Hand.



#7 HappyDaze

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 03:58 PM

Easy fix for the Raptors Solo Mode Ability:

Change the "reduce penalty by 10" to "gain a +10 bonus" (this is later replaced by the +20 bonus as the ability advances). This will make it work with Marksman rather than being pointless until advanced.


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