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#1 the_zombie

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:15 PM

Greetings!

 

Apologies if these are repeats – I did do a search, but…

Anyway:

1. Page 47 The Regroup Order. They make a big deal about how this will remove Suppression and Reaction markers (especially in the last paragraph). But I’m not sure how you would ever be in this situation. The last thing you do in a turn is remove Reaction markers. Now we start a new turn with initiative. Then go into Command Phase. You cannot react to orders in the Command phase, therefore how would a player ever have a Reaction marker to remove (using this rule in the Command Phase)? On paper being able to remove Reaction markers is great, but I don’t see how this added ‘benefit’ will come into real game play (unless there is some sort of special gun/power that adds Reaction markers in the Command phase.)


2. Page 22 Weapon Characteristics (specifically the 2nd paragraph). It says a miniature can use ALL of its weapons in an attack. Other places in the book reaffirms this as well. Maybe I am just used to so many other miniature games that only let you fire ONE weapon per shooting phase, but it sounds like: A Sturmpioniere Squad (page 121) that has 3 of the models in the unit carry both panzerfaust and machine guns, could actually fire BOTH of those weapons in 1 round of shooting. Is that is correct? Or would you have to pick one or the other weapon? Same goes for many of the U.S. squads. They have machine guns, and the same guys have grenade launchers built into the gun, but the grenade portion has a completely different stat line. Could US forces fire both gun and grenade launcher with a single action spent on shooting? And if so, (I hope) you would be forced to fire at the same target with said weapons. Any clarity out there…?

Anywho – love this game. And thanks a ton in advance!

 



#2 Dakkon426

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:41 PM

 1. The regroup order has the reaction part in as a catch all, also if a unit is in a transport that gets destroyed during the first command phase they will end up with a reaction marker so it can happen. Also sometimes units can get literally tons of suppression markers so this could be the only way to keep them in the fight.

2. You may attack with any and all weapons divided between any number of valid targets. So using recon grenadiers as an example you would have 4 x stg, 1 x MG48 and 3 x panzerfaust and you may fire each weapon at whichever valid target you wish. the only exception is close combat, in CC you may only select 1 target and may only use you C weapons.



#3 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:15 AM

Bingo, what Dakkon said. If you have a unit with multiple suppression markers on them and are at risk of possibly retreating, you will be super glad for the regroup order. Plus, it is quite common for the SSU to have their chopper shot out from under them and have to disembark and have reaction on them, as Dakkon mentioned. It happened to me in a game using the SSU, The chopper was shot down in the command phase and the unit had to disembark and take reaction. In the same phase. They were shot at by someone else and suppression was added. The next player went and suppressed them even more and then on my command phase I regrouped them and removed everything. Being a 3 player game, I then went first in the unit phase and used my newly regrouped unit to shoot the crap out of a nearby unit and remove them from the table…. without regroup, I would not have been able to take any action at all, or at the very least I woul;d have had to remove all suppression markers through rolling which would have been unlikely and still only would have left me with a single action instead of the sustained attack double action I was able to take because of regroup.

Yes, also to the second question… as Dakkon said. He's a smart guy! :)



#4 Tab2000

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

 A little misleading on point number 2.  Any UNIT can attack multiple targets but a MINIATURE in that unit would have to use all of it's weapons on a single target.  So machine guns and grenades could be used on one target ONLY by a miniature figure in a unit.  



#5 Major Malfunction

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:14 AM

Tab2000 said:

 A little misleading on point number 2.  Any UNIT can attack multiple targets but a MINIATURE in that unit would have to use all of it's weapons on a single target.  So machine guns and grenades could be used on one target ONLY by a miniature figure in a unit.  

Can you show me that in the rule book.? I can't find any rule stating a model must fire all it's weapons at the same target. 



#6 Dcal12

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:29 PM

Tab2000 said:

 A little misleading on point number 2.  Any UNIT can attack multiple targets but a MINIATURE in that unit would have to use all of it's weapons on a single target.  So machine guns and grenades could be used on one target ONLY by a miniature figure in a unit.  

why and where does it say that?  So you play a miniature that has a StG 47 and a panzerfaust can't fire at a soldier unit and a walker?



#7 Mike J

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:40 AM

Tab2000 said:

 A little misleading on point number 2.  Any UNIT can attack multiple targets but a MINIATURE in that unit would have to use all of it's weapons on a single target.  So machine guns and grenades could be used on one target ONLY by a miniature figure in a unit.  

Core Rulebook pg 40 says under Pick a Target: "The unit may split its attacks against several targets…Each individual weapon may be declared separately." Keep in mind the game term "unit" can be misleading, as it can refer to a single miniature and in common language the word unit often refers to a group of soldiers. A lone hero is a "unit". A vehicle is a "unit". A soldier unit is a "unit". So, a miniature (aka "unit") with multiple weapons can fire against multiple targets (each individual WEAPON may be declared separately).

I've seen nothing in the rules to contradict this, provided none of the weapon are Close Combat weapons (there is a special set of rules for Close Combat).



#8 Tab2000

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:58 PM

I was looking at page 40 under Attack Options.   It says a miniature can use all of its weapons in an attack.  It doesn't say you can split attacks as a miniature and that would seem unbalanced.  You would essentially be getting 2 (or more) attacks with one attack action (grenades and guns at two different targets).  UNITS can split attacks.  So 5 miniatures in a unit could fire at up to 5 legal targets.  But each miniature would have to fire all of their weapons at their chosen target.  Otherwise you could attack 10 targets if each miniature had grenades.  That is not what was intended by declaring each weapon separately.  It was meant for anti-tank weapons to be able to shoot at Mechs and for machine guns to shoot at soldiers when you have a unit with different weapons. Doesn't that make sense?  Interestingly, a Hero miniature COULD split weapons since they are also a Unit (unless they join a unit) and that would be cool  since they are more powerful.  What do you think?



#9 Poe

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:05 AM

Tab2000 said:

I was looking at page 40 under Attack Options.   It says a miniature can use all of its weapons in an attack.  It doesn't say you can split attacks as a miniature and that would seem unbalanced.  You would essentially be getting 2 (or more) attacks with one attack action (grenades and guns at two different targets).  UNITS can split attacks.  So 5 miniatures in a unit could fire at up to 5 legal targets.  But each miniature would have to fire all of their weapons at their chosen target.  Otherwise you could attack 10 targets if each miniature had grenades.  That is not what was intended by declaring each weapon separately.  It was meant for anti-tank weapons to be able to shoot at Mechs and for machine guns to shoot at soldiers when you have a unit with different weapons. Doesn't that make sense?  Interestingly, a Hero miniature COULD split weapons since they are also a Unit (unless they join a unit) and that would be cool  since they are more powerful.  What do you think?

I think you are overanalyzing and projecting your own ideas on how they rules "should work". There is nothing in the rules stating that each miniature in an infantry unit has to use all its weapons on the same target. What is stated is that "Each individual weapon may be declared separately" which I think is pretty rock solid. It doesn't say "Each individual miniature may be declared separately".

So yes, a unit with grenades could in theory attack 10 different targets, but when would that ever happen in practice?

Of course, if you really feel that this needs to be cleared up further just send a message to FFG. Zach is usually pretty quick with answers and they are always sensible and in spirit of the game. Use the form here: Rules Questions. Please let us know the answer! :)



#10 zuggzugg

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

Each weapon in a unit, not each weapon on each miniature. If one unit has 5 weapons, all 5 of those weapons can attack different targets. This does not mean the same weapon on each individual miniature can attack a different target.



#11 Mike J

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:44 AM

zuggzugg said:

Each weapon in a unit, not each weapon on each miniature. If one unit has 5 weapons, all 5 of those weapons can attack different targets. This does not mean the same weapon on each individual miniature can attack a different target.

The rule covering this in the book (Core pg 40) says "Each individual weapon may be declared separately" (NOT each type of weapon) and even demostrates with an example "a unit with 7 M1 ARs could fire each one at a different target".

Essentially, you can assign weapons to targets however you want.






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