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Chapter VIII - The Force


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#1 ynnen

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:33 AM

 

A sticky thread for editing and proofreading comments on Chapter VII- The Force.



#2 Soliloquies

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:08 PM

Page 180: Control Upgrade (bottom upgrade on left side of column): "This power gains the following effect [O]: The Jedi……

But on Page 181 in the Skill Tree: Sense, 2nd tier, right side Control Upgrade block calls for [OO] and should read [O]



#3 cparadis

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

Here are some suggested revisions for Chapter VI: The Force. Obviously, these are only suggestions, and I could be completely wrong. Also, some suggestions may be contrary to design intent, for example suggestions to talents. Also, corrections to page numbers are probably unnecessary given those are likely to change with the addition of flavor and art.

Becoming Force Sensitive
p. 176, col 1, para 6 - “This means any PC can take it . . .” Changed Player Character to PC.
p. 176 Table 8-1 - The bottom right most cell has a period at the end but the other cells do not.
p. 176, col 2, para 1 - “. . . –on a fundamental level it changes who the character is and can easily become a defining facet . . .” Changed “becoming” to “become.”

Specialization: Force-Sensitive Exile
p. 176, col 2, para 2 - “. . . and certain other species open to PCs have similar . . .” - Changed player characters to PCs.
p. 177, Force-Sensitive Exile Talent Tree - Uncanny reactions at 20xp is permanent but at 5xp is not.

Activating Powers
p. 178, col 1, para 7 - “and these emotions should be present in the PC.” Changed Player Character to PC.
p. 178, col 1, para 8 - “Once a PC assembles his available Force . . .” Changed Player Character to PC.

Dark Side Force Users Sidebar

p. 179 Dark Side Force Users Sidebar - “Edge of the Empire assumes that any PC Force users are . . .” Changed Player Character to PC.

Force Power: Sense
p. 180, col 1, para 7 - Control Upgrade "This power gains the following effect [O]:” p. 181 at the 5xp level on the right states “[OO] . . . .” These should be consistent. EDIT ALREADY IDENTIFIED BY SOLILOQUIES
p. 180, col 2, para 4 - “ (This upgrade may be purchased multiple times, each time increasing the number of targets by the character’s Willpower.) ” Moved comma inside the parentheses.
p. 180, col 2 Using Sense In Game Sidebar - “. . . however, the GM should not simply deny this information to the PC who has invested . . .” Changed player character to PC.
p. 180, col 2 Using Sense In Game Sidebar - “Sense allows a PC to read . . . For example, an individual may be nervous when meeting with the PCs . . .” Changed Player Character and Player Characters to PC and PCs respectively.
p. 180, col 2 Using Sense In Game Sidebar - “Overall, the GM should endeavor to allow PCs to use . . .” Changed player characters to PCs.

Force Power: Influence
p. 182, col 1, para 4 - Text states “The most basic form of Influence does not allow the Force user to guide or shape the thoughts of others. He can ‘merely’ strain their mind, inflicting stress and exhaustion.” This is contradicted by the Influence Basic Power on p. 183. A possible edit could be: “The most basic form of Influence allows the Force user to guide or shape the thoughts of others. He can also strain their mind, inflicting stress and exhaustion.” The next two sentences should also be changed to reflect the fact that the basic upgrade has two powers not merely one.
p. 182, col 2, para 3 - Control Updrade - “When making a Coerce, Charm, Deceive, Leadership or Negotiate check, he may roll an Influence power check as part of the pool. . . . This counts as a normal Force power check . . .” Changed “Influence Power check” to “Influence power check” and “Force Power check” to “Force power check” to match style of Force power check on p. 178.
p. 182, col 2, para 7 - Magnitude - “ (Additional purchases of this ability increase the number of additional minds to his Presence and twice his Presence, respectively.) ” Moved period inside parentheses. However, the text boxes of the two additional upgrades on p. 182 do not reflect this ability.
p. 182 Influence Special Rule Sidebar - “. . . dark side results may only generate Force points . . .” Added “Force” before “points.”
p. 183, control upgrade 5xp - “The character may force 1 living target he is engaged with . . .” Changed capitalization of “Engaged” to “engaged” to match style.

Force Power: Move
NOTE: It might be nice to have a size table, or a reference to a size table, included in this power since it refers to items of certain sizes. I believe the table is Table 6-5: Silhouettes and Characters on p. 137.
p. 184, col 1, para 4 - “Every additional point moves the object one range band farther away.” Added “band” after range and changed “further” to “farther.”
p. 185, third control upgrade - “. . . with his hands . . .” Added space between “his” and “hands.”

The Jedi and the Dark Side
p. 186, col 2, para 4 - “Many of those living in the galaxy fear Force users. . .” Added “in” before “the galaxy.”


Additional questions:
p. 179 refers to the various Force powers as specializations. Do these count against the three specialization limits? Seems unlikely, but this could be more clear either way.  Also, if they are specializations and you leave the specialization do you permanently have access to these powers and upgrades?



#4 cparadis

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:58 AM

Also:

p. 182, col 2, para 3 - Change "Deceive" to "Deceit"

p. 183 - Influence power tree - Change "Deceive" to "Deceit"



#5 Damocles346

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:25 AM

On p. 178, under Force Powers, it says that, " The initial purchase of each Force Power costs 10 experience…," but when you flip the page over to the Sense power, the first tier is listed as cost 0 for all powers. It seems like it would be more intuitive to just mark it on the force power page itself as 10xp cost, and then rewrite the entry for gaining Force powers to something like, "A Force Sensitive Exile may purchase ranks in any Force Power tree that is available to him."



#6 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:26 PM

Admittedly this is probably more of a gripe than a proof-reading error, but it is feedback on a section of this particular chapter.

Page 179, 2nd Column, 2nd Paragraph.

Is it really necessary to smack would-be Force-users upside the head that hard?  They're already paying 20 XP (10 to get into Force Sensitive Exile, 10 for just the base Power) not to mention the additional cost of the "on the way" Upgrades, not to mention already having to forgo skills and talent increases.  So making them pay double or triple the listed XP value for a Control Upgrade just feels… well, it feels spiteful, as if the author has a very strong anti-Jedi bias.  That probably isn't the case, but that's how it reads, almost like a throw-away comment of "here's all this cool stuff, but if you want it, you'll have to pay through the nose to get it."

I understand the intent is to limit players to the lower tier of Force-users, but that's already in place by the fact that the best Force Rating that can be achieved is a 2 (unless Dedication can be allowed to increase Force Rating, which based on that talent's reading I don't see as being the official interpretation since it's technically not a Characteristic), which itself has a cost of 95 XP (70 to follow the talent tree to Force Rating and then 25 for the talent itself).

If it really is the case that these upgrades are meant to be that expensive, then perhaps it should be more clearly stated instead.  Perhaps instead of having the upgrade line list a flat XP value for that row, instead it lists the actual XP cost of that upgrade.

So to use Sense as an example, instead of the two Control upgrades (each costing 10 XP apparently), instead of having a column on the far right read 5 XP, perhaps instead have the first line read "{_} Control Upgrade (10 XP).

Honestly, I think there are much better ways to balance Force powers than an exaggerated upgrade cost, particularly since that increased cost is only a minor hurdle, and one that can easily be overcome even at character creation.  In fact, all it really does is encourage Force-using PCs to become one-trick ponies, which can lead to all sorts of problems as GM Chris very aptly demonstrated with a sample character that had spent almost all their starting XP on ramping up the Move power.


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#7 EldritchFire

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:12 AM

 Page 177, Balance talent. It references the Recouperate maneuver, but I can't find any other reference to it. I'm assuming that it's from a previous iteration of the rules.

-EF



#8 Locksathy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:31 AM

 UPGRADE p.179

The example given in the lat paragraph using the Duration upgrade should be changed to match the changes made in the beta update.

 

SENSE BASIC POWER p.180

First bullet:  Change Close range to Short range.

 

FORCE POWER TREE:  INFLUENCE p.182

I would recommend changing the emplacement of the Special Rule for light/dark side force point use.  It would be less confusing if it was included in the first Control Upgrade box.



#9 Locksathy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:35 AM

Damocles346 said:

On p. 178, under Force Powers, it says that, " The initial purchase of each Force Power costs 10 experience…," but when you flip the page over to the Sense power, the first tier is listed as cost 0 for all powers. It seems like it would be more intuitive to just mark it on the force power page itself as 10xp cost, and then rewrite the entry for gaining Force powers to something like, "A Force Sensitive Exile may purchase ranks in any Force Power tree that is available to him."

 

This change to the table would be confusing since the rules on p.179 state that the xp cost for an upgrade must be multiplied by the number of columns the upgrade occupies.  Following this rule, if it was written 10 on the first row, it would then mean its cost 40xp to open a force power tree!!!



#10 Green Leader

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

 

Force-Sensitive Exile Talent Tree

p. 177, Convincing Demeanor (first and forth columns)

“skullduggery” should be “skulduggery”

 

p. 177, Sense Danger (first column)

“1” should be “one”

 

p. 177, Touch of Fate (forth column)

“1” should be “one”

 

Upgrades

p. 180, throughout

“Ongoing” should probably not be capitalized

 

Force Power Tree: Influence

p. 183, Control Upgrade (third and forth columns)

“Engaged” should not be capitalized






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