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Saying goodbye to WFRP 3e


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#1 Beren Eoath

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:29 AM

I bought the game as soon as it was avaliable. I bought every expansion and for quite a long time had fun with it but now it's time to say goodbye. After many sessions now I see many negative aspects of the game. The cards that were a plus in first sessions after many expansion become a minus (it's too many of them). The fact that at every career needs a new character sheet is a big misunderstanding. Many useless careers that players will never choose. To much table space that You need to play the game comfortable and to many components that You need to use make it hard or even almost impossible to play out side. Not enought informations about the Empire, it's big cities, culture, fashion and citizens.  And the lack of support and news form the publisher. It all made me to take this dicision. It looks that I still like better the more classical aproach to RPGs. Of course I made so home rules to make this game more playable without cards but it was not the thing I wanted or even made the game harder to play. So I'm leaving WFRP 3e and I'm going to play more other games like Descent 2e.

It looks like the next RPG that I will give a chance will be SW:The Edge Of The Empire becouse it looks like it will have all I wanted form a good RPG game. All signs and information I have seen give me a picture of a game that takes all the best aspects of WFRP 3e and throws away all the thing I dislike in it. So it will have hardcover book with all the information I need to play the game, a custom dice system similar to the one from WFRP 3e, many species and only playable carrers with specialisations for them. The best thig that I see is the break of the game in 3 line when every of it will focus on specific aspects of the universum. So at this point it looks really good, so I think I will give it a try.

The only question that comes to my mind is why FFG did not publish WFRP is such a way they will do Star Wars RPG. If they would spit the Warhammer Fantasy in more lines and every line would focus on something different it would  be great. For example there could be a line for playing in Empire and a line for Ulthuan or a line focused on villians and a line for witch hunters & priests. I think that it's many possibilities. This reminded me of the time when FFG published The Ratcatchers Tale and people were guesing how the game will look like - I was guesing that they will break the game in line focusing on different aspects of the Old World. I just hope that someday i will see such a game, maybe even from FFG. Who knows?

So I'm leaving this game. For everybody that stay I want to say one thing - have fun!

Cheers

B.E.



#2 Yepesnopes

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:24 AM

 Hey Beren!

Well, I feel exactly like you do. In my case the only reason I stay in the 3rd edition is because my 8 players like it, and you know, do not change the winning team. So I have decided to sacrifice my self a little bit and wait for a wfrpg edition that does away with all the cards but keeps the nice things like custom dice, the innovative use of skills (like atacking with Leadership(Fel) or Stealth(Ag)), the stress and fatigue rules etc. In the mean time I will keep on looking for that set of house rules that makes me more comfortable with wfrpg 3.

About your question why wfrpg 3 is not like SW, my two cents is that back in 2008 wfrpg was a very new and revolutionary idea. Sadly it didn't have enough play test, probably due to releases pressures on the designers, so it was release with a lot of enthusiasm and a bit as an experiment. After so many years it seems natural that they release a new rpg based on the good things of wfrpg 3 but that does away with the bag ones.

Then, I tell you also Have fun! but I am not going to say good bye to you, more something like see you later. I am sure you will jump like a possessed when the next iteration of wfrpg is released, and then we will see in the forums again!

Hasta la pronto


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#3 Himmelweiss

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:43 AM

*shrugs* i like the cards and stuff.
Makes WFRP3e awesome special and in no way i would ever want anything different again.

Ofc it lacks backround, fluff and alot more still, but that's nothing that can't be fixed.

 

For me, WFRP3e as it stands now is alot of fun, i'm with it as well since it's US release, and i can't have enough :P
I do not miss anymore the classic Pen&Paper style at all.



#4 Emirikol

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:20 PM

B.E. We'll have the witch hunters track you down. You'll be back before sundown.  :)

Neat ideas on splitting the themes.  They had that option with all the kinds of stuff that was being done for the online game, so my guess is it was a design direction not thought of.

Ranalds luck with you,

 

jh



#5 valvorik

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:59 PM

 To each his own.  I do use alot of earlier edition stuff purchased mostly as pdfs (some purchased long ago and sitting on shelf) to round out background so I can understand if only using new edition not feeling enough background info is available.  But it is out there and it's still more than many systems offer.

Myself I love the system, have no problem with the use of counters etc., only feel some components not well executed (small maps etc) but it's great fun and easier to play and run but still having depth than many systems.



#6 korknadel

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:35 PM

I just don't get, why carriers you never use could possibly annoy you that much. The same with action cards. Because I don't see too many useless cards. The useless ones are in the box, the ones I use are on the table. I have, let's say four players in the group, so I need exactly four carrier cards, and they are used, so they are not useless. All the other carriers are invisible, because they are in the box, useless at the moment.

 

And I also don't see the difference between this situation and more conventional rpgs. I never need all the classes, the spells and the monsters in any rpg. I always only need a few at any given session or campaign. But I would never complain, that they are there. Would you really feel better if there were just 19 different, but useful carriers?



#7 Bobus X

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:53 PM

 I actually really like the way the components are broken out.  If everything was just spread through a bunch of books, I would end up having to lug a bunch of books with me everywhere.  With the components, I use pouches for each PC, with their Character sheet, Action Cards, Talents, Career Card, and tokens in each pouch.  I have a few small plastic bins that hold the components that I need to run.  The rest of the components are in more plastic bins that I keep in a duffle bag as a reserve.

It does take up a decent amount of table space, but if you play games with mats and mini's, it really isn't that much more.  I find that setup can take a bit, but once done, it flows smoothly and rapidly.  Very easy to improvise.  The only problem I see is with so many Action Cards would be making sure an improvised action isn't actually superior to the Action Card version.  Not really a big deal as long as none of the PCs has the applicable Action Card.

I think a lot of the sudden desire to move away from 3E for many is that lack of communication from FFG on these forums.  People naturally want to move away from something that appears to be a "dead game".  Still, I think ruleswise WFRP 3E is about at its limit.  I get a lot of fluff from GW's Army books for WFB, so I only need a little bit more.  The "Elf box" seems to be the main missing expansion, other than that, more scenario's seem to be the main thing.

I don't really see why so many feel that if a game stops production, it isn't worth playing anymore.  This kind of thinking leads to getting the long splatbook parade that ends up bogging down so many RPG lines.  I wish more companies would produce a limited package of core products, then scenarios, and minor updates along with reprints.  If FFG went to a POD heavy model, with reprints of any core products that go out of stock, as well as more scenarios, that would seem pretty perfect to me.  

Finally a complete game that isn't completely ruined by too much stuff (I do understand that for some, 3E is already at this point), just being pumped out to make a line seem "alive"…



#8 flyndad

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:01 AM

Hi Beren !

Sorry to see you leave the game,…  and I suppose with you not playing anymore you won't be needing any of your Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay books, Items, campaigns, etc, etc.    If you happen to live in the states I would be VERY interested in purchasing what you have. You can reach me here as I try to check in a few times a week.  All I have is the core set and was just getting ready to purchase a whole bunch of WFRP items. Thanks,…

 



#9 skolo

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:13 AM

I switched to boardgames some time ago. Its still interesting but all those cards etc in a roleplay…lack of support etc.

no good



#10 Blackberry

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:17 PM

 I love the cards.  I also play in a Pathfinder campaign, and I have to constantly reference the rules just to figure out what all the words on my character sheet mean, how this feat interacts with that maneuver, etc.  I wish it all came on cards WFRP-style so that the game system could get out of the way and encourage roleplaying.

 



#11 Bobus X

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:15 PM

With you on that one, the cards make information easy to reference.  Of course a few less subsystems would have made WFRP lite enough to get by without the cards.  I think a lot of the card hate just comes from it being different.  Gamers are a dissonant lot, they praise innovation and hate change…



#12 Johann Rowlocks

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:23 PM

Bobus X said:

With you on that one, the cards make information easy to reference.  Of course a few less subsystems would have made WFRP lite enough to get by without the cards.  I think a lot of the card hate just comes from it being different.  Gamers are a dissonant lot, they praise innovation and hate change…

True that!



#13 Yepesnopes

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:42 PM

Bobus X said:

With you on that one, the cards make information easy to reference.  Of course a few less subsystems would have made WFRP lite enough to get by without the cards.  I think a lot of the card hate just comes from it being different.  Gamers are a dissonant lot, they praise innovation and hate change…

Don't misunderstand action cards, they are not small and cute reference sheets that you can use to easily check the game rules, they ARE the gale rules and the game mechanics. This, does not need to be bad, in principle! But with something like 78 action cards for melee, 35 for ranged, 100 for support, plus NPC action cards, spells…there is a big mess regarding game balance, or if you want, there are a big amount of action cards which are worthless in front of others. Together with this, there is the recharge time game mechanics which I personally hate for its lack of sense, it a mechanic so much alike to that of a PC game. Why I cannot attack each round with my double strike? or cast each round a fireball? Why if I want to attack with my two handed weapon I have to buy a rotation of cards (e.g. Thunderous blow, Mighty Swing, Reckless Cleave and Troll Feller Strike) to get the most out the combat?

Don't think I don't like action cards or the wfrpg 3 game, but in my opinion it is a game which needs a cleaning, another iteration. If you ask me, next iteration of the game has to be with less action cards and no recharge tokens mechanism…well some other things too like an anti yellow dice (which already exists in the star wars new rpg if I am not wrong), but that is a matter of personal taste.


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The Dark Side - Witches, Warlocks, Dark Magic and more

Secrets of the Anvil - Advanced Dwarf careers and runes

Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE


#14 Daedalum

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:52 PM

i agree that sometime people can be reactive to trying new stuff but  in fairness, you have to really want to play wfrp3 to manage the bits. Managing cards, upwards of three kinds of tokens and custom dice pools all adds up. It works for me but I cant deny its all a bit much for some. 



#15 Bobus X

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:21 PM

 Oh I am not saying its perfect by any means.  I have said beforevthat hey won't overboard with some of the bits and subsystems.  I am mostly referring to the specific feelings that having any part of the character sheet on cards, or using any bits at all make it worthy of hate and disdain.  Include custom dice on that list.






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