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Slaves vs Employees


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#1 eBarbarossa

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:05 AM

Hey guys,

Is there any difference rules-wise between hiring employees and buying slaves? It's kinda strange to make an acquisition roll for both.



#2 Uncle Screwtape

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 07:04 AM

 Mechanically speaking, I don't think so. The acquisition role represents you mustering your dynasty's financial and political resources for whatever purpose you desire. Slaves cost money/influence to acquire and employees require a payroll. The only mechanical difference is one of price (slave labour is cheaper). Upkeep tests may be needed more often for the employees because they demand a higher level of treatment but, in the end, it all comes down to thrones. 



#3 BirdofHermes

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:43 AM

There is no RAW difference.  That said, common sense would dictate that you can't always find the right kind of people as slaves.  Unless your are acquiring them from a special distributor (like the Red Scholar) slaves will probably not be highly skilled.



#4 HappyDaze

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:07 AM

BirdofHermes said:

 

There is no RAW difference.  That said, common sense would dictate that you can't always find the right kind of people as slaves.  Unless your are acquiring them from a special distributor (like the Red Scholar) slaves will probably not be highly skilled.

 

 

You may not always be able to hire the right kind of people as employees either. Most of the roles a RT needs filled are either generalized grunt work or highly specialized fields. The former are almost always easy to fill and the latter are almost always hard to fill regardless if you plan to leash them with chains or contracts.


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#5 Manyfist

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:48 PM

 Most your crew ar going to be menials, people you pick up from prison planets, or hives. They're chained to their post, only unchained if they're dead. The rest the voids enlarge not slaves but employees, for life. Then there's the officers and whatnot which are more or less colleagues. Or if you like, the dark holds of the ship are the temps/serfs. The voidsmen are the Knights/middle management. Officers are upper management/ nobility & royalty. 



#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

Manyfist said:

 Most your crew ar going to be menials, people you pick up from prison planets, or hives. They're chained to their post, only unchained if they're dead. The rest the voids enlarge not slaves but employees, for life. Then there's the officers and whatnot which are more or less colleagues. Or if you like, the dark holds of the ship are the temps/serfs. The voidsmen are the Knights/middle management. Officers are upper management/ nobility & royalty. 

Every crew is different. Some crews may consist of nothing but volunteers while others are crewed by slaves. What kind of quarters the ship has tells a lot about how the outfitter intended for it to be crewed.


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#7 Magellan

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:35 PM

Uncle Screwtape said:

Upkeep tests may be needed more often for the employees because they demand a higher level of treatment but, in the end, it all comes down to thrones.

Upkeep tests… for the crew?

GM: Okay, you failed your Upkeep Test. Your crew leaves you.

Player: So they're trying to mutiny? Alright, summon the armsmen. Summary executions for everyone!

GM: No, the crew is deserting. Including the armsmen.

Player: Wait, what? The entire crew all at once? Did we hire the Hive Mind or something?

GM: That's what the dice say.

Player: But we're in the middle of the Warp!

GM: The dice have spoken.

And what are you supposed to do if you lose your entire crew, anyway?

Oh yeah, and to stay at least nominally on-top:

Slaves make you seem more cruel and totalitarian, which is why you should always go for slaves. Also, as some people have pointed out, there isn't much of a difference between a hired rating and a slave, and they most likely get paid roughly the same. Slaves aren't going to make very good officers, probably.



#8 Thebigjul

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 12:52 AM

Slaves will also not work properly.

I mean that even if salary is bad you will always have a more productive crew with freeman than with slave.

Second, freeman can be unhappy with their jobs but slave will wait untill the time of revolt comes.

And dear RT the perfect time for slave revolt is indeed when the ship endure a special event like minor gellar field failure, with all your arsmen repelling horror of the warp.

The time in battle xhere your plasma drive is put offline;

The moment when your RT and his cadre are down on planet side with a skeletton officer casdre on board.

When board by pirate, chaos servant, xenos, …

To be brief, freeman can endure and complain but in the end it is their choice, slave have not decide to be here and will as every single human being try to regain freedom as soon as possible.



#9 HappyDaze

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:31 AM

Thebigjul said:

Slaves will also not work properly.

I mean that even if salary is bad you will always have a more productive crew with freeman than with slave.

Second, freeman can be unhappy with their jobs but slave will wait untill the time of revolt comes.

And dear RT the perfect time for slave revolt is indeed when the ship endure a special event like minor gellar field failure, with all your arsmen repelling horror of the warp.

The time in battle xhere your plasma drive is put offline;

The moment when your RT and his cadre are down on planet side with a skeletton officer casdre on board.

When board by pirate, chaos servant, xenos, …

To be brief, freeman can endure and complain but in the end it is their choice, slave have not decide to be here and will as every single human being try to regain freedom as soon as possible.

There are many different flavors of slavery, and not all of them are pressed into slavery through force. Some even made a choice to willingly enter into slavery - usually for a limited term. I also feel that slave revolts of humans against human masters are also not as likely as suggested considering that there are threats out there that endanger humans as a whole (daemons, xenos, chaos reavers, etc.).

In game terms, having a slave crew reduces the Permanent Morale of the ship, but not so much that you'd have to worry about revolts all that often.


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#10 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:28 AM

Thebigjul said:

Slaves will also not work properly.

I mean that even if salary is bad you will always have a more productive crew with freeman than with slave.

Something of a modern mindset, perhaps. The Imperium does, afterall, employ vast amounts of indentured labourers (much of the Administratum consists of hereditary indentured workers, for example, and most Imperial Navy vessels use press-ganged labour for menial tasks below decks).

Human life in the Imperium is an expendable resource, particularly when it comes to menial labour. For the most degrading and demeaning of tasks, masses of slave labourers are expended, because their lives are virtually worthless unless those lives are spent in service. If they rebel, then they will be executed without a second thought and replaced. If they do not work sufficiently hard, they'll be punished without mercy until such a point as they're no longer able to work, at which point they can be disposed of and replaced.

To those in power within the Imperium, such men are little more than mortal fuel, their lives expended to sustain the great mechanism that is the Imperium of Man.

When it comes to jobs that actually require competence, rather than merely compliance… that's when you start rewarding those who toil, though no man in the Imperium is truly free, for all mankind exists to serve the Emperor.


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#11 Thebigjul

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:29 PM

I will rephrase my toughts.

You will always have less trouble and more effective work with people who think that it is their duty to do and not some hard work imposed by a stranger who took you far from your friends and familly.

Yes all humans in the Imperium (less heretics) know that their life is to be given to him on earth, but there is a real difference (from the books i've read so far) beetween volontary submission and forced compliance.

If your crew is a slave clone xenos product with loyalty transcribed in their genes then ok you got the best crew. But even in Warhammer 40K universe "free people" (cytisen of the imperium) will revolt if the life became too hard. (and when I mean too hard is a ten times what you need to get a revolution nowaday.



#12 HappyDaze

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:20 PM

Thebigjul said:

You will always have less trouble and more effective work with people who think that it is their duty to do and not some hard work imposed by a stranger who took you far from your friends and familly.

Duty doesn't mean that they can't become self-serving, and labor unions can be far more troublesome and harder to suppress than slave revolts. At least with slave revolts, you can usually demoralize them by any number of means that you can imagine. With labor unions, you've probably bargained away your ability to outright coerce compliance. If you then decide to take drastic measures that effectively turn them into slaves, you'll probably end up with more problems than you would have had if they had been slaves all along.


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#13 Thebigjul

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:07 AM

Like todays politics union are not a problem, they only point out to you who need to be bought for all to stay silent.

Union are no more what they should be.

Give extra coins, some privileges and confort to those in charge and they will see that workers will do their job.



#14 Cornwallis

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:42 PM

I'd say the only difference from slaves and employees is how you treat them once their onboard. you can pretty much turn any worker into a slave once onboard, because hell, they cant exactly leave the ship once your out of port.



#15 HappyDaze

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:07 PM

Cornwallis said:

I'd say the only difference from slaves and employees is how you treat them once their onboard. you can pretty much turn any worker into a slave once onboard, because hell, they cant exactly leave the ship once your out of port.

Some slaves may well be treated better than some employees. Not every model of slavery is based upon the American South. Most were quite different.


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