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Heroes Steam Roll Death on Wings


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#1 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:58 PM

 Just finished up the 3rd Act I scenario for the campaign. We played Death on Wings and the heroes completely steam rolled it. I was wondering if others had the same experience. The heroes did win the first 2 Act I scenarios but it was much closer. They won Cardinal's Plight simply because the Overlord had overlooked that he could spawn a Master Zombie after it had been killed in the second Encounter. Fat Goblin was won by the heroes simply by dice.

Hero Set up:

Nanok of the Blade - Berserker

Mad Carthos - Necromancer

V the Falconer - Thief

Aviric - Disciple

The heroes have 10 Act I shop items at the start of the quest along with Staff of Light. The heroes have drawn a random shop item on every quest including the intro. The Falconer has Appraise which he uses to dig through the search deck to ensure shop items. These include Chainmail, Scorpion Helm, Iron Shield, Leather Armor, Iron Battleaxe, Lucky Charm, Magic Staff, Ring of Power,  Steel Broadsword, and Heavy Cloak. In addition to this they have drawn every treasure possible on each map to maximize gold.

The heroes beat the first encounter on turn 4 and the second encounter on turn 1 before the Overlord even had a turn. The ability to do this seems completely broken for this map. I do understand the heroes are pretty pumped up but they seem to be snowballing out of control. Will the game balance out in Act II? Or should we just start a new campaign?



#2 Coldmoonrising

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:15 AM

I played death on a wing once so far and it was very close a couple times to having a hero surrounded by monsters and boulders (I was playing the OL). My couple questions here:

  1. Did you strategize the valley well enough with the spiders and boulders to make it a bit more difficult for the heroes to progress. I used a zigzag pattern laced with spiders at the end waiting for heroes to move up. I also used skeleton archers to help try and flood the exit as well. (I feel that using smaller, more abundant monsters here for the open group is a good strategy to try and close the heroes in the valley)
  2. Did all of your heroes make it to the 2x2 exit panel as well? Being this is the only way for the heroes to win encounter 1 of DotW.


#3 Hayzuss

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:33 AM

I do not see how little guys are going to help you get the end condition of having someone trapped at the end of their turn any hero is going to just two shot anything that small and they are good to go. You would basically be relying on them rolling two X's in a row as most small minions melt first hit anyway.

 

From looking at the setup of the second part it looks terrible for the OL The heroes can just use fatigue and a move action and surround the guy and all get a shot on him too which would almost certainly spell death for him. Looks pretty bad if you do not have some serious movement stopping cards in hand.

 

 



#4 Coldmoonrising

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:38 AM

I could be relying on poor rolls but I did almost have it. It came down to one intense moment because I had the disciple surrounded. Luckily for the heroes, the knight was able to move a boulder out of the way in time, else he would have been TRAPPED! lol



#5 Carnagecjb

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:49 AM

 On our groups playthrough of this level, the heroes won the first encounter fairly easy.  That is, in my OL opinion, not a big deal one way or the other.  The second encounter is where the real action takes place.

It is not hard, at all, to place the elementals such that they become meat shields for Belthir.  Belthir has enough HP that, even if the heroes manage to get past the elementals to attack him, he shouldn't die the first turn.

Once it was time for the OL to act, I used the giants I had placed to move in and attack the guards.  Frenzy cards helped tremendously.  Belthir had absolutely no trouble moving across the map and hiding in the water.

They had left Tobin sitting on the starting tile, and, based on their placement of heroes, I was able to spawn the master elemental almost exactly where he had been the previous turn.  Since the minion elemental hadn't been killed yet, the heroes lost a large part of the second turn just fighting their way off the bridge.  The guards damaged both giants, but not enough to kill them.

 

Two rounds of attacks by the giants, backed up by an additional attack from Belthir had the game just about won for the OL.  There was only a single guard left at this point.

Seeing the level as a lost cause, the heroes dedicated themselves to grabbing search tokens as much as possible.

 

Beginning of the third OL turn, I killed the last guard.  Game over.

 

(Judicious usage of trap cards is highly recommended.  Give the heroes time to plan out exactly what they are going to do for their actions, and then procede to disrupt their carefully laid out scheme with a tripwire or pit trap.)



#6 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:54 AM

Coldmoonrising said:

I played death on a wing once so far and it was very close a couple times to having a hero surrounded by monsters and boulders (I was playing the OL). My couple questions here:

  1. Did you strategize the valley well enough with the spiders and boulders to make it a bit more difficult for the heroes to progress. I used a zigzag pattern laced with spiders at the end waiting for heroes to move up. I also used skeleton archers to help try and flood the exit as well. (I feel that using smaller, more abundant monsters here for the open group is a good strategy to try and close the heroes in the valley)
  2. Did all of your heroes make it to the 2x2 exit panel as well? Being this is the only way for the heroes to win encounter 1 of DotW.

Coldmoonrising said:

I played death on a wing once so far and it was very close a couple times to having a hero surrounded by monsters and boulders (I was playing the OL). My couple questions here:

  1. Did you strategize the valley well enough with the spiders and boulders to make it a bit more difficult for the heroes to progress. I used a zigzag pattern laced with spiders at the end waiting for heroes to move up. I also used skeleton archers to help try and flood the exit as well. (I feel that using smaller, more abundant monsters here for the open group is a good strategy to try and close the heroes in the valley)
  2. Did all of your heroes make it to the 2x2 exit panel as well? Being this is the only way for the heroes to win encounter 1 of DotW.

I was actually playing the heroes on this one and was disappointed it was so easy. I don't think he made any really bad choices.

The OL picked Razor Wings for mobility / Stunning with the master.

1st turn:

Aviric has Magic Staff equipped. Fatigues up so he can see into the camp area and takes out 1 Razor Wing. Nanok moves up is trip lined, fatigues for 4 uses whirlwind (has the stamina rung) to kill 2 more of the Razor Wings. The Falconer moves up and uses Greedy to open a treasure falcon moves into the hallway. Carthos fatigues up and uses the Staff of Light twice to restore 2 fatigue to everyone.

The Overlord places the boulder in the canyon in such a way that it will take extra movement to get around (near the first corner). Red Razor Wing tries to stun Aviric as he has the Cleansing ability (removes one condition on a use of Healing Prayer) since the stun would only be removed before the hero takes an action. He gets the damage and a surge but Aviric is wearing Heavy Cloak which forces the Overlord to lose a surge on the attack. No stun hits. The second razor wing (newly spawned) moves and attacks Carthos. Spiders move down the canyon hoping to be used to surround a hero.

2nd turn:

Falconer positions uses greedy to open two more treasures. Nanok moves into the hall and smashes the boulder. Carthos summons a skeleton with his first action, activates it with his second action attacks the red razor wing. The skeleton gets a regular action kills the red razor wing and moves down the hall. Aviric uses heal on Carthos, moves back down the previous hallway to attack the newest Razor Wing doesn't die.

The Overlord places a boulder. The Overlord spawns another Red Razor wing, frenzies and attacks Avirirc twice. First roll is a miss (bad luck). Second roll contacts and he has two surges this time. Unfortunately, Aviric rolled good enough shields that the razor wing must spend one to add damage and he cancels out the other with the Heavy Cloak. Second Razorwing attacks Aviric as well. Spiders easily squash the Skeleton but are cautious of Nanok's Whirlwind ability. They move so they can not easily be attacked on the heroes next turn.

3rd turn:

Carthos uses the Staff of Light twice to restore 2 hearts and 2 fatigue to everyone. Nanok smashes the boulder and moves down the canyon. Aviric attacks the white Razorwing and kills it, moves down the canyon, spends fatigue such that he is in line with Nanok (making a wall). Falconer uses his special to hit the Red Razorwing and kills it. Uses Greedy to open the last treasures and fatigues as much as possible to get near the canyon.

Overlord places a boulder. Overlord gets a Red Razor wing moves it and attacks the Falconer who is the only target. He is unable to drop a stun. Overlord has spiders in a position that they cannot avoid damage the next turn. They move up and focus an attack on Aviric (hoping to punch a hole). Aviric is poisoned but does not die.

4th turn:

Nanok fatigues forward and whirlwinds to kill 2 spiders (and gets a fatigue back). He fatigues forward again and whirlwinds killing the remaining spiders. Remaining heroes run toward the exit.

Okay, so the heroes didn't exactly win on turn 4 but there was nothing the OL could do on turn 5 to stop them.

Again, this is the only time we've played this Quest and it might just be a very potent group of heroes. This Quest was not even fun for us to play. If the remaining quests are going to be easy (due to snow balling hero powers), we want to just start over. What do you think?



#7 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:57 AM

Carnagecjb said:

 On our groups playthrough of this level, the heroes won the first encounter fairly easy.  That is, in my OL opinion, not a big deal one way or the other.  The second encounter is where the real action takes place.

It is not hard, at all, to place the elementals such that they become meat shields for Belthir.  Belthir has enough HP that, even if the heroes manage to get past the elementals to attack him, he shouldn't die the first turn.

The OL did position the elementals such that you have to kill one to get to Belthir. (I don't think it is possible to make it so you have to kill both). I killed the elemental and Belthir with an entire attack remaining on turn one. Overlord had not time to react.



#8 Carnagecjb

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:12 AM

jcbbjjttt said:

The OL did position the elementals such that you have to kill one to get to Belthir. (I don't think it is possible to make it so you have to kill both). I killed the elemental and Belthir with an entire attack remaining on turn one. Overlord had not time to react.

 

That seems a bit…much.

In a 4 hero game, Belthir should have 15 HP.  Unless the OL completely botched the defense rolls, how did that much damage get done in a single attack?



#9 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:43 AM

Carnagecjb said:

jcbbjjttt said:

 

The OL did position the elementals such that you have to kill one to get to Belthir. (I don't think it is possible to make it so you have to kill both). I killed the elemental and Belthir with an entire attack remaining on turn one. Overlord had not time to react.

 

 

 

That seems a bit…much.

In a 4 hero game, Belthir should have 15 HP.  Unless the OL completely botched the defense rolls, how did that much damage get done in a single attack?

I don't remember exactly how it went down but it was something like this:

Nanok goes first with the Battleaxe and kills the elemental we are going to move past his turn. Falconer goes second, positions falcon next to Belthir, fatigues close and attacks. Forces a reroll of Belthirs defense. Second action is to use Falcon special to place it in his line of site and make a second attack with Red, Blue, and Yellow die. This essentially can force the overlord to make another reroll. Carthos goes, fatigues up and uses his special (+3 damage on an attack). Gets a surge using the Staff of light adding another +2. Summons skeleton which gets an attack on Belthir aswell. Aviric goes and kills Belthir with his first attack.

Every hero except Carthos is rolling Blue + Red die and I can force a reroll on defense twice in the first turn. Fifteen damage is not too hard.

Again, I'm not saying it could happen if it was the first quest chosen. My question is, should we restart since the heroes seem over powered in this campaign?



#10 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:44 AM

I do think the overlord had a Pit Trap but I was able to pass the test. Trip Wire was never useful as I never made a move action.



#11 Coldmoonrising

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 05:40 AM

Honestly, it sounds like the group found a really good way to work the system. Especially with the thief digging through the search deck to get to the treasure each quest. I don't know what to tell ya, it sounds like they've gotten really lucky with great rolls and having proper gear.

I've no idea how Act 2 will play out as I've yet to start an interlude with my 4 different groups right now. I should be starting one next Saturday (8/25/12) and then I'll get a chance to see how Act 2 quests are set up.



#12 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:44 AM

 We will play the interlude next and at least 1 act II quest to see if the Overlord wins one (or is at least close). If not, we will probably start a fresh campaign. It is no fun when the Overlord doesn't even have a chance.



#13 schmoo34

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:19 AM

In the first encounter, I found Merriod's to be a good choice for open group because they defend with a black die and I just simply plugged up the exit to the cavern with them.  That allowed me to borrow time to start planting boulders in the cavern with the spiders.  I didn't win, but it was much closer for me than they expected.

 

As for the 2nd encounter.  I dunno, it is pretty easy to kill those guards.  I can see the heroes winning possibly, but it is still an easy killing to go after guards.  Especially with an open group who has good speed.  Belthir was attacked the first two turns before he retreated…but I didn't have heroes as stacked with equipment as you did.



#14 Lrdlother6

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:54 PM

I just completed the first half of Death on Wings, and managed to actually win as the OL.

 

I huge help was having a Merriod.  My players immediately attacked the Merriod, which simply respawned at the start of my turn to attack to players, immobilizing them both, as they weren't able to get far enough away from their starting zone to get away from it's reach.  They would then kill the Merriod, which would simply respawn and come after them to hit them again.

 

This allowed me a couple turns to build up 5 boulders, as well as advance my spiders to help out.

 

I did have a great draw of the Reinforce card, which helped out late to trap the heroes among the boulders.

 

I was actually able to knock out all three heroes, then surround them with spiders to win.

 

Haven't played the second act, though I have seen similar things to what others have experienced.  I played it once as a hero, and we beat it in two rounds, though the OL made a large mistake in his placement of the elemental, allowing us to walk right around it and get to the liutenant.

 



#15 uppTagg

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:47 PM

 I'm actually in a similar situation as the OP with the Heroes spinning out of control DPS-wise quite early in the campaign. They steamroll pretty much everything at the moment and we're just on our third ACT I quest.

Avric - Disciple w radiant light

Loeric of the Book - Necromancer

Grisban - Berserker

Tomble - Wildlander

They're very well kitted already due to being able to search a lot and getting heaps of money. I have no real issue with Tomble and Grisban, they're strong but not really OP as long as I can stop Grisbans movement and fatigue management. Avric has a chainmail, which Tomble almost always uses from the back so he's no real target unless on his own. Radiant light is super strong in act 1 and getting out of LOS is harder than one might thing in this game. The irritating part is that there is no save of any kind for it, just eat the damage.

Now my real issue lies in the necromancer. He bought the no-brainer damage upgrade and damn, there's no stopping that zombie.

Immobilise/slow him, Loeric can remove him, walk his movement, put him up, have reanimate move 3sqrs and attack (total range of him is 8 squares move + attack).

Kill the reanimate and he'll come back next round and do the damage anyway. (Loeric has 5 fatigue so he can go on for a while) Also, you waste damage you could've done on others.

Ignore him and he'll eat you the **** up. >< with extra action as well during loerics turn he's a beast.

Kill Loeric - Since FAQ and RAW, it doesn't matter, reanimate can act before stand up anyway.

In my opinion, he's way out of line with the other characters.. oh I dread for "army of the dead" later on.. -_-

My first group of monsters always die on the first round or so.. I always put them as far away as possible but that doesn't really help. I'm worried that this campaign have already gone out of hands because of this party. Will it shift over towards OL supremacy during ACT II or what?



#16 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:32 PM

uppTagg said:

 I'm actually in a similar situation as the OP with the Heroes spinning out of control DPS-wise quite early in the campaign. They steamroll pretty much everything at the moment and we're just on our third ACT I quest.

Avric - Disciple w radiant light

Loeric of the Book - Necromancer

Grisban - Berserker

Tomble - Wildlander

They're very well kitted already due to being able to search a lot and getting heaps of money. I have no real issue with Tomble and Grisban, they're strong but not really OP as long as I can stop Grisbans movement and fatigue management. Avric has a chainmail, which Tomble almost always uses from the back so he's no real target unless on his own. Radiant light is super strong in act 1 and getting out of LOS is harder than one might thing in this game. The irritating part is that there is no save of any kind for it, just eat the damage.

Now my real issue lies in the necromancer. He bought the no-brainer damage upgrade and damn, there's no stopping that zombie.

Immobilise/slow him, Loeric can remove him, walk his movement, put him up, have reanimate move 3sqrs and attack (total range of him is 8 squares move + attack).

Kill the reanimate and he'll come back next round and do the damage anyway. (Loeric has 5 fatigue so he can go on for a while) Also, you waste damage you could've done on others.

Ignore him and he'll eat you the **** up. >< with extra action as well during loerics turn he's a beast.

Kill Loeric - Since FAQ and RAW, it doesn't matter, reanimate can act before stand up anyway.

In my opinion, he's way out of line with the other characters.. oh I dread for "army of the dead" later on.. -_-

My first group of monsters always die on the first round or so.. I always put them as far away as possible but that doesn't really help. I'm worried that this campaign have already gone out of hands because of this party. Will it shift over towards OL supremacy during ACT II or what?

We just played the Interlude tonight and it was extremely close. The heroes did win BUT it was extremely close the entire time and only won because of a really bad turn for the OL and a really good turn for the heroes.

We are going to hold out for one Act II quest to see if it is close, if not, we are going to just restart the campaign with a random selection of heroes and classes along with random monsters for the OL to make things a little more interesting.



#17 Johnnyboy667

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:37 AM

My gaming group had the same experience yesterday. I am playing Overlord against a group of 3 heroes. 'Death On The Wing' was the final quest before the interlude and up until that encounter, although I had won every quest, every encounter had been tightly fought. Most came down to the wire.

'Death On The Wing' was the only one that I felt, even upon seeing the objectives, that I would be on the backfoot from the very start. In encounter 1 I chose an ettin as my open group in order to block up the exit and used the spiders and boulders pretty well and despite knocking out one of the heroes and the other heroes making a daft strategic error and leaving him in the canyon while they ran for the exit, the heroes still pretty much walked it.

After that encounter 2 was even more of a cakewalk for them. Two of the heroes used their heroic feats on the very first turn, surrounded the lieutenant and beat him down until he had only 1 remaining health point. I then tried to protect him by immobilising the heroes with the elemental and making my beastmen open group rush across to attack the heroes but this meant I had no way of attacking the guards. Within about two turns the heroes had taken out the elemental, got around my beastmen and dealt the final point of damage out to the lieutenant.

I think the bottom line is that, as Overlord, you need to fight like Hell and be really lucky in the first encounter to stand any chance in the second encounter.



#18 Jakubryba

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:19 PM

Encounter 2 in this scenario is nearly unpossible to win for OL unless he or she didn´t win the first encounter. Our group won today in the very first turn easily. What an unsatisfying experience. Bad, bad work FFG!



#19 RagsMckay

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:47 PM

A good monstor group for OL on this quest is Manticore. They have range so the can attack 3 out of the four villagers without entering the room, thus villagers stand there and take it as no monster entered the room. They also have ravage so 2 attacks a round. Place one Manticore in front of each door and away you go.


I die...A lot.


#20 DeeJay507

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:47 PM

Death on the Wing is hard for the heroes only under 2 conditions:

 * they lack damage

 * they have no high-strength character.

 

In your case, heroes had very high damage and they had strong character that removed boulders. 

The reward for heroes however is a little stronger shield. I'd not be worried as an OL if they win this. 

 

However it would be more of a challenge if your overlord did less mistakes.

You say that OL would like to stun avric, so I assume he did not have Cleansing Touch. Otherwise stun is useless. 

He should take Merriod then. 

And I'd not rush with spiders to such high-dps party of heroes. Especially that I have a boulders to hide behind. 

Also Magus cards help a lot in this scenario. 

 

Oh and as for the 2nd encounter first turn win for the heroes. Also OL mistake. On 2nd encounter OL should have all cards he needs to stop them. Web Trap or Dark Fortitude. 

 

Finally you have used conversion kit and I'm not sure the game is well balanced for these characters. +3 damage special?? Falcon that attacks with blue+red+yellow on any range?? It would be hard to imagine base characters with all Act I items do 15 damage, while having to move some distance and kill 1 monster. 


Edited by DeeJay507, 22 July 2013 - 03:04 PM.





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