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Only ever taking the large monsters


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#1 Cabello

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:13 PM

 Hey all,

So I picked up the conversion kit and we started up a new campaign.  Our other one is at the intermission and the OL has won 1 game so far.

 

The OL was pretty excited for the new minis to use and in Castle (the one where the OL is trying to kill all the viligers in the first part) the OL took Naga and Crypt Dragons, and for the second part took Golems. 

 

The heros failed to light the beacons and all the viligers were killed, and in part 2 they didnt make it past the golems on the stairs before the captain died.

 

Now this is a competative game, not an RPG. The heros were complaining that the OL took unfair monsters even though they were completely legal and he did nothing wrong and that he should have taken some spiders or goblins or something that they could have killed easier. 

Why would the OL do this? With reinforcements how they are I see no reason why the OL should take a group of 5 spiders that die to a stiff breeze when he could take something that stays around, especially when you reinforcements do not scale with they monster type. This therefore makes goblins an such a general no show.

 

We are considering some sort of boosted reinforcement to larger grouped monsters like kolbolds or zombies or whatever so that there might be a reason to take them instead. Have any of you come across this? What are your thoughts?

--An annoyed OL who never complains when he loses (at times quite badly), but gets lots of complaints when he finally wins…



#2 KingLz

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:58 PM

The damage of large and small monsters (dice) always seems to be the same.

In that case taking a larger group of smaller monsters will give you an edge in pure damage.

 

Are the big monsters slower in general?

That might be a downside of them, too.

 

Overall the big monsters might seem to be a good choice, but I doubt they really are.



#3 jjcole

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:16 AM

There's always going to be strategic reasoning in choosing large or small monsters. A single large, strong monster is better at blocking hallways than a group of small monsters, since the heroes can just kill one of the small monsters and then move through. However as stated above, a group of monsters with multiple attacks will do more damage more quickly due to having multiple attacks, though of course they will die more quickly also.

There is also the quest reinforcement rules to take into account, since if the heroes wipe out your monster group, it might be more useful (depending on the quest of course) to be able to bring back one master Shadow Dragon than a single master Goblin Archer. Of course there are exceptions to that also.

I don't think choosing all large or all small monsters all the time is going to be a good strategy, but if choosing all large monsters worked out in that particular quest for the Overlord, then go for it, that's the whole point. Choose the best monsters for the job.



#4 Coldmoonrising

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:17 AM

I just finished quest two with my coworkers last night and I sent them to Castle Daerion (since I'm OL) and for my 1st encounter I used Sorcerers (at exit) and Bane Spiders (at entrance). Playing with 3 heroes, I had a total of 3 Sorcerers and 2 Bane Spiders.

Heroes were: Tomble (Wildlander), Grisban (Knight), and Widow Tahra (Runemaster)

I felt I picked fairly well for encounter 1 even though the heroes one it. I walked away with two dead citizens.

Encounter two was a bit different. I pushed my ettin as close as I could to Palamon, the two zombies started fairly close and for my open group I brought in 1 master Ogre (with the lovely undying ability).

The heroes focused too much time on killing off the master ogre to only have him rise as a minion that same turn he died off. Due to the undying ability allowing my master to come back regardless of group limits, he ran to Palamon and started beating on him.

Encounter two was won by me, the OL. The heroes barely made it to the throne room when Palamon got stomped on. It really came down to lucky rolls on my end. On the positive side though, they found the treasure chest and walked away with chain male.

OL: 2, Heroes: 0 (not including First Blood)

 

For comparison shopping of this quest. I played it a week ago with my family and lost miserably as the OL. Low rolls and Palamon called in all reinforcements before I could defeat him. So it's really up to luck with this game honestly. Oh yes, for my open group in 2nd encounter, I chose Medusa's to try and crowd control the heroes. It was okay but I didn't have enough fire power on Palamon.



#5 ced1106

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:39 PM

The party composition is as important as the monsters the OL chooses. New whiny parties should take the Knight and Necromancer, because they have Blue + Red damage. The Thief's ability to Search at a range with Greed is a long-term strategy because the party needs Act II weapons later. Players need to must burn Fatigue early to punch a hole through OL's blockers, then run like crazy to the objective. Heroes should block passages as well, allowing the third and fourth heroes to go forward, while the blockers prevent OL reinforcements from advancing.

Barghasts are great OL creatures because they block *and* have speed.



#6 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:54 AM

 For my group, we have made a house rule that you can only select monster groups that have the same size as those you could select without the conversion kit.

To me, the conversion kit monsters were not play tested well. With the Golem's in Castle Daerion it is almost impossible to win since the Golems can just block the two hallways. On this map, if they can get a Knight adjacent to Sir Palamon it is much harder for the OL. Without the conversion kit, the OL normally can only use small figures on this map.

What do others think?



#7 schmoo34

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:52 AM

I don't have the conversion kit and can't comment on those but I do see some advantage with larger monsters but it depends on the quest.

 

For example, when doing Masquerade Ball, or other "grab the items and get out" quests, speed is important.  However, I agree with another poster that more smaller monsters do more damage….ie you will kill heroes quicker.  HOWEVER, sometimes you want to defend or have other goals and in those situations, there are other creatures which I prefer.

1) Ettins roll two grey die…and have hurl.

2) Merriod rolls a black die which increases their longevity and can attack two squares away.

3) Shadow dragons can only get hit if a surge is rolled.  This means you have double the chances of a hero missing (not getting a surge or rolling a blue "X").  That, by itself, increases their longevity.

With that being said, elementals also are large and they die super easily.

Ultimately, you have to choose what makes the most sense with the encounter and your goals.  Are you attacking?  Disrupting?  Stealing? Defending?  The answer to that leads to which creature is best.  I wouldn't choose a larger creature if my goal was to attack.  The spiders, etc. are better options.



#8 jim_t_ca

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:07 PM

As the OL for my groups (I have THREE campaigns going on at once) I always choose my open groups randomly.  This keeps ME on my toes and seems to create a fairer mix of battles. Especially since I can pick up stratagies from playing the same scenarios multiple times. As I've found out a group of 9 Kobolds with 3 master's splitting  slow a hero group in a hallway just as much as a 6 space dragon if not ever better. Where as if I need to kill multiple targets, large numbers in a group are MUCH better than one BIG guy.  Sometimes I win, MOST times I lose but it is still FUN not knowing ahead of time which monsters I will take for certain scenarios. Just MY two cents worth.



#9 jcbbjjttt

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:49 AM

jim_t_ca said:

 As I've found out a group of 9 Kobolds with 3 master's splitting  slow a hero group in a hallway just as much as a 6 space dragon if not ever better. 

Assuming no one is playing the Spirit Speaker with Shared Pain ;)






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