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DH Careers As OW Specializations & Warband Creation Rules


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#1 Mercucio

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:08 AM

NOTE: This was not my idea originally (thanks Plushy & DJ Sunhammer), but this my OCD dash-madly-to-the-finish-post take on things. I hope you find it useful. I am also looking for feedback, especially regarding Special Doctrines.

 

DH Careers as OW Specializations & Warband Rules v0.1 - OCD Edition



#2 Plushy

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:43 AM

Mercucio said:

NOTE: This was not my idea originally (thanks Plushy & DJ Sunhammer), but this my OCD dash-madly-to-the-finish-post take on things. I hope you find it useful. I am also looking for feedback, especially regarding Special Doctrines.

 

DH Careers as OW Specializations & Warband Rules v0.1 - OCD Edition

 

Wow, I'm loving the look of this! You'll have to mind my quiet jealousy.

 

Warband creation: Is there a point total? I didn't see one anywhere. Does each character build this, or does the party? (Quite a few things act like it is one character building the warband.) Monodominants seem quite a bit more mechanically powerful than the other factions. Investiagor is more powerful than many others, getting both a choice of characteristics and a free skill on top of a talent. Judicar gives Pity The Weak, despite it not being in OW. I would replace Militant's penallty choices from Intelligence or Perception to Intelligence or Fellowship. Zealot's really should have Willpower, and Armor of Contempt isn't in OW. None of your approaches boost Perception, and only one boosts Toughness. Carta Extremis Hunters and Daemonhunter Retinues are a lot more powerful than Firebrands, yet cost more. Kill-Team grants Demolition, which is no longer a skill. The "Suffer the Witch" power is very strong. Allowing starting characters to have Very Rare implants is asking for trouble.

Specializations: I don't think the Adept should have the option of the Agility aptitude. Arbitrators should have Weapon Training (Shock) and should drop the drugs, as well as having some kind of good armor.. Assassin should have a long-las or some other such assassin-y option instead of a shotgun. The Guardsman's Operate (Military) skill does not exist. Battle Sister is both very powerful and lacks her training in Flame weapons.

 

 

This is a nice start, but the relative weakness of your Specializations doesn't match how powerful the Warbands can make them. At the very least, they all need better gear. Many of the skills and talents you reference simply don't exist in Only War anymore. I can't figure out exactly how your warband creation system works, and wonder why nothing in their grants an Aptitude instead of the clunkier Directive aptitude system. Your powerlevel is a bit lost - are these xenos-killing badasses or are they street rats with not enough bullets to reload their guns? It's a good start, but it definitely could use some work. I do like a lot of your warband ideas, but not too much of the execution. 

 

I'm happy to help, though!


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#3 Bassemandrh

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 12:50 PM

I disagree with the items needing to be more powerful than in the link. Its Dark Heresy, not Dark Heresy semi ascension. Some of the items could be different, like the Assassins Shotgun choice, but overall i think the Careers are fine. Maybe some of the Special Careers, Cleric comes to mind, have a bit too good gear compared to the other careers.

I agree however that some of things in the Warband creation section seems to be alot better than others, especially in combination with each other. For instance Monodominant ( 2x Hatred Talents) and Hereticus Retinue (Add half DoS to dmg roll against enemies if you have hatred talent) seems like a very strong combo.

I am not certain is you're supposed to choose a single homeworld for the party, but if that is the case i think Home world should be an indivdual Player Choice.

 

Also i like where this OW to Dark Heresy Char gen is going, so thanks to all participating, can hardly wait for more goodies :)



#4 Mercucio

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:49 PM

GOD DAMN IT! I HATE THE QOUTE FUNCTIONALITY OF THESE BOARDS (insert apologies for not properly quoting you properly here)

<Stuff Plushy wrote that boards suck at qouting>

 

Thanks! Formatting is easy if you know what do. If you ever wants tips/advice I'd be happy to assist.

As for your offer of help, it is gladly accepted and as you will see from my responses as well very welcome. :)

 

1. Warband Creation: The point total is 12, just like a OW regiment. This is how it breaks down:

Ordo, Faction, & Approach are agreed upon by the players as a whole. All Cells for the Inquistor in question would share they traits. Why I am making a distinction in Cells you ask? Because I can see a GM allowing a party to play as different Cell belong to the same Inquisitor depending on the adventure he wants to run, or having a back-up cells handy in case of a player-wipe.

Cell Directives are again agreed by the players as a whole and are unique to that Cell of Acolytes.

After the above choices have been made and the build points paid, each player can now spend their remaining build points on selecting their Homeworld and Special Doctrines.

ex.

Warband of Inquistor Jones
Ordo: Xenos (1 pt)
Faction: Antiquitari (1pt)
Approach: Explorer (1 pt)

Cell Directive: Relic Hunter (3 pts)

Sub-Cost: 6pts

Individual players have 6pts they can spend on Homeworld & Special Doctrines.

 


2. Factions: Each Faction gives the equivalent of 1 or 2 talents worth of benefits, with Factions that grant the equivalent of two benefits suffering a drawback. In some ways I am more worried about the bonuses/rerolls to Influence Tests, as Influence in DH is a hell of a lot better than Logistics.

     Judicar: You will see some stuff that is not OW. I've left out the Appendix dealing with new/reprinted Talents and Skills.


3. Approaches: Under the general rubic of why a given Characteristic is listed as an option many times, once, or not at all: I went with what I felt fit. This does not mean things can't change, or that new Approaches can't be added (like Flamboyant for Vownus Kaede or Cynical).
     Militant: I am not adverse to the alteration you propose but I am (genuinely) curious as your rational
     Zealot: Hmm, I see your point. Which would you drop in favor of it?

 


4. Cell Directives:
Carta Extremis Hunter/Daemonhunter Retinue vs. Firebrands: Firebrand grants more Directive Aptitudes and gives access to three Faith Talents: Pure Faith, Hand of the Emperor, and Wrath of the Righteous. That being said perhaps Bathed in Promethium could use some tweaks, but I'll be honest:
I wrote the whole damn thing in a 12-14 marathon sprint. It's nowhere near 100% finished. ;)

Note: Not sure how to handle Faith Talents yet. Thinking about making Willpower their Primary Aptitude and leaving the Secondary dependent on Directive Aptitudes.

 


5. Specializations
Adepts: Adept's primary Characteristics in DH are Int, Per, Will. The dump Characteristics were WS, S, & T. I'm fine with a potentially Dodgy & Shooty Adept. Incidentally I have NOT forgotten the Psyker Adept, I am just not sure how to execute and you never gain Psy until Rank 7+.
Arbitrator: In DH it takes Arbitrators until Rank 2. If you want it to start, select Weapon Skill for you Aptitude and buy it with XP.
Battle Sister: What makes her very powerful in your eyes? Pure Faith or the power armor? Also Battle Sisters learn the Bolter before they ever learn Flamer.

Equipment: I didn't even *touch* this in the first draft.

 


6. Weakness of Specializations vs. How Powerful the Warbands Can Make Them: Can you give and example or your critereon for comparison? I'm not sure how to respond without a little better understanding of how you reach your conclusion. If you'd like to know I came up with my balance points for them I'd be happy to give a separate explanation in own post.

 


7. Why Does Nothing Grant Aptitudes: The short answer is because I haven't really touched the Special Doctrines equivalencies. Directive Aptitudes are an attempt to model DH's Alternate Advances/Elite Advances/Cell Directive skill & talent options. I'm currently leaning towards the ability to buy one Characteristic Aptitude (but not secondaries like Finesse, Knowledge, ect) as a Special Doctrine costing 3-4 points. In the end Cell Directives may get removed as an option from Character Creation and become something everyone in the group buys later, kind of like how it is now in DH. As I mentioned things are in flux--this is after all the OCD-Dash-Madly-To-The-Finish-Line iteration. :)

 

8. Power-Level: You say it is a bit low, so my question is how so? From my experience DH starts at street rats without enough bullets with barely enough bullets to reload their guns on a good day and ends at xenos-killing badasses. As for the Warband ideas, I blame you and Sunhammer. I took what you suggested and vomited out a (mostly) blind stab in the dark. :P

 

 

I think I have covered your main points. If I missed something do let me know.



#5 Plushy

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:18 PM

1.  Thank you for the clarification on the warband creation.

2. Each grants a talent or two, but the Monodominant gains a pair of Tier 2 talents whereas the Amalathian gains a +5 to a roll that doesn't come up terribly often. That's a bit of a power gap. I've personally wanted to find some way to bring over the unique Talents and Traits that a lot of alternate ranks have.

3. For the Militant, I think that Perception is a funny penalty. Their specialty is for combat, yet they're worse at finding hidden foes and expecting ambushes? For the Zealot, I'd say +3 Fellowship or Willpower, with a penalty to Toughness or Intelligence.

4. This is where the powerlevel conflict comes in. You have these pretty average people with low-end gear, but then they're ignoring Daemonic penalties or Fear from xenos. These all give a pretty significant bump to the PCs, and that's before they're getting cheaper fun advances. The Iron Evangelist special ability sucks compared to Daemonhunter or hereticus retinues. Also, the Kill-Team lacks any ability.

5. I personally gave the Adept very non-combatant aptitudes: Intelligence, Fellowship, Perception, Willpower, Knowledge, Social. Finesse and Agility fit a shootier, sneakier build (like the Assassin.) Arbitrators are good at interrogating folks and handling crowds, yet is instead built for sniping (Ballistic Skill and Finesse.) I concede on the Battle Sister; hell, mine is more powerful than yours. Equipment definitely needs a touch-up; OW starting characters get less skills and talents than these blokes, but are toting around more armor, lots of grenades, and weapons with either plenty of reloads or more exotic types (Flame, Bolt.)

6. See my answer to number four. These Specializations are for pretty novice Acolytes, yet Tier 2 talents seem to be pretty common, with lots of Hatred and Resistance.

7. I think a later group purchase may be a better idea. That was how they were handled in DH, after all. A more general purchase of one Aptitude allows for similar skillsets across the party without such a limited pool.

8. I'll happily take that blame! The balance thing I've talked about a few times already. Hatred and Unshakeable Faith (plus many other Tier 2 talents) are pretty common in your system for starting characters.

 

No offence meant! I'd love to fine-tune this Warband system especially.

 


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#6 Mercucio

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:14 AM

1. De nada.

 

2. Factions: Each grants a talent or two, but the Monodominant gains a pair of Tier 2 talents whereas the Amalathian gains a +5 to a roll that doesn't come up terribly often. That's a bit of a power gap. I've personally wanted to find some way to bring over the unique Talents and Traits that a lot of alternate ranks have.

Hmm. See I think a.) Influence sees a lot more use than Logistics since you can use to requisition goods, servces, AND manipulate groups. I suppose I should change it to all Influence tests involving said organizations, but while the bonus is small (+5) I see it contributing more heavily to the game overall, as opposed to Hatred which only applies to combat.


3. Factions: For the Militant, I think that Perception is a funny penalty. Their specialty is for combat, yet they're worse at finding hidden foes and expecting ambushes? For the Zealot, I'd say +3 Fellowship or Willpower, with a penalty to Toughness or Intelligence.

Ah, well Militant is overt combat and interaction in my mind--you don't need to find the guy, just burn down the house he is hiding in. As for Zealot: sold!


4. Cell Directives: This is where the powerlevel conflict comes in. You have these pretty average people with low-end gear, but then they're ignoring Daemonic penalties or Fear from xenos. These all give a pretty significant bump to the PCs, and that's before they're getting cheaper fun advances. The Iron Evangelist special ability sucks compared to Daemonhunter or hereticus retinues. Also, the Kill-Team lacks any ability.

As, I see what you are getting at. Well there's another strike against Cell Directives as part of the Warband mechanics. As for the Kill-Team lacking an ability, not all Cell Directives necessarily need a bonus Talent/special mechanic.


6. Weakness of Specializations vs. How Powerful Warbands Can Make Them: See my answer to number four. These Specializations are for pretty novice Acolytes, yet Tier 2 talents seem to be pretty common, with lots of Hatred and Resistance.

Ok, I think this is really more geared towards what Cell Directives can do than the Careers/Specilizations themselves. Is this correct? Also, Reisistance is a T1 Talent.

 

7. Nod

 


8. I'll happily take that blame! The balance thing I've talked about a few times already. Hatred and Unshakeable Faith (plus many other Tier 2 talents) are pretty common in your system for starting characters.

Well the only other real good 'faith-ish' option at T1 is Orthoproxy, which is well, kinda of lame in that not every character with faith is going to have a circuit implanted in their brain.

 

I am breaking #5 out into it's own post which I will put up after some League of Legends. :)



#7 Mercucio

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:32 PM

5. Careers: I personally gave the Adept very non-combatant aptitudes: Intelligence, Fellowship, Perception, Willpower, Knowledge, Social. Finesse and Agility fit a shootier, sneakier build (like the Assassin.) Arbitrators are good at interrogating folks and handling crowds, yet is instead built for sniping (Ballistic Skill and Finesse.) I concede on the Battle Sister; hell, mine is more powerful than yours. Equipment definitely needs a touch-up; OW starting characters get less skills and talents than these blokes, but are toting around more armor, lots of grenades, and weapons with either plenty of reloads or more exotic types (Flame, Bolt.)

Regarding the Adept in DH they are nowhere near as social as your interpretation is. Of course that's half the issue right: interpretation.

Finesse & Agility and shootier, sneakier builds: I think you may want to look over Stealth again, the second Aptitude is actually Fieldcraft. :P

Aribitrators: Again, basing my Aptitudes off their Characteristic Progressions in DH. As for the social end of things they do receive Fellowship as an Aptitude and begin play with both Command and Inquiry, the two primary social functions they have (Insure Obey and Investigate).

As for OW Specialities, funny you should mention them. When coming up with my Careers I did a little analysis:

Basic Specialties
Heavy: 9 talents & skills, 10W
Medic: 6 talents & skills, 8W
Operator: 6 talents & skills, 6W
Sergeant: 6 talents & skills, 7 aptitudes, 10W
Weapon Specialist: 8 talents & skills, 8W
Avg Skills & Talents: 7
Avg Wounds: 8.4/8.8 (this assumes you house rule Operators to have 8, I have no idea why they have 6)

Support Specialties
Commisar: 8 talents & skills, 7 Aptitudes, 10W
Priest: 9 skills, 9W
Storm Trooper: 9 skills, 12W
Tech Adept: 10 skills, 8 Aptitudes, 8W
Avg Skills & Talents: 9
Avg Wounds: 9.75

Note I have purposely left off the Ogryn, Ratling, and Sanctioned Pysker.

Based on the above I adopted for building Non-Specialist Careers as 8 Skills/Talents, 8 Wounds and Specialist Careers as 12 skills/talents, 8 Wounds. I set the price of a bonus Aptitude at 3 Skills/Talents. So there is the logic behind those design decisions.

 

As for the more "exotic" Weapon Training--Bolt, Melta, ect--I say "meh". They are not anything you couldn't get with starting XP.



#8 Mercucio

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:58 PM

Sufficient feedback has convinced me that trying to include a (mostly) straight importation of Cell Directives as part of Warband creation is not only inappropriate but potentially unbalancing as well. Below is my attempt redeem/recover the design space that Cell Directives (Regiment Type) was meant to fill. Please note that this is very much a rough draft that is open to revision.

 

Cell Origins
You may only purchase one Cell Origin per Acolyte cell.

Cell Origins assume that the PCs have either:
a.) Had their initial, formative experience one to three missions in the past, prior to the commencement of the current adventure/campaign. This shared past background can be established through a series of interactive flashbacks/encounters with the GM or via collaborative fiction/storytelling
b.) All Cell members have shared a similar, if not always identical experience in their past, resulting in their Inquisitor amalgamating the PCs into a single cell in order to better exploit their cumulative experience.

 

Cell Directive                          Cost
Daemon-Forged                      3/2
Warp Cult                                  3/2
Heresy (Imperial Cult)            3/2
Mutant/Psyker Uprising/Cult  3/2
Xenos Infestation                     3/2
Cold Trade                                3/2

Tech-Heresy                              2
Temporal Corruption                2
Touched By the Tyrant Star      3
+3 more

 

Daemon-Forged
The cell’s defining mission involved the direct confrontation of the Warp and its foul denizens. Rather than fall prey to the daemon’s seductive wiles, clever machinations, or terrible rage, the cell managed to not only survive their experience, but overcome their foe as well. Such success not only confirms the cell’s value as Acolytes, but tempers the mettle of any surviving Cell members against daemonic influence in anticipation of their next, invariable confrontation with the forces of the Warp. Daemon-forged cells are greatly valued by Inquisitors of the Ordo Malleus, but are occasionally found among the ranks of the other Ordos as well.
Cost: 3 (2 for Ordo Malleus Warbands)
Prerequisites: None.
Characteristics: +2 Toughness or +2 Willpower
Bonus Talent or Skill: ???
Hardened to the Daemonic: members of this cell add a +10 bonus to Willpower resist the effects of Daemonic Fear, as well to any Characteristic test to resist the effects of psychic powers or special abilities of Daemonic origin.
Touch of Evil: Despite their triumph, each member of the cell has been marked by their experience with the raw power of Chaos, gaining 1d5 Corruption Points

 

Mutant/Psyker Uprising/Cult
The manifold remit of persecuting the heretic, psyker, and witch sometimes results in the duties of the Ordo Hereticus overlapping those of the Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos. When not devoting their time to stamping out doctrinal heresy and temporal corruption Inquisitors of the Ordo Hereticus expend considerable effort rooting out and thwarting the machinations of the psyker and mutant. While these pogroms rarely reveal more than the desire of an oppressed social caste to expand their temporal influence, every once and a while the Ordo's investigators uncover links to more…unconventional patrons. Regardless, the members of this cell have proved themselves instrumental in detecting and disrupting the plans of the Shroud Masters, <psychic rouge faction>, <additional group>, and other foes of Humanity.
Cost: 3 (2 for Ordo Hereticus Warbands)
Prerequisites: During Warband creation the cell must possess at least one Adept, Arbitrator, or Priest.
Skill: All members of this cell gain either the Forbidden Lore (Mutants) or Forbidden Lore (Psyker) Skill.
Eye of Judgment: Members of this cell gain a +10 bonus on all Investigation Tests involving mutants OR psykers. Which faction this bonus applies to is determined by the Forbidden Lore skill selected by the Cell during Warband creation.

 

Warp Cult
Though the defining mission of thus Cell did not involve the direct conflict with warp-spawn that defines a Daemon-Forged cell, the members of this cell have nonetheless have managed to uncover and a defeat a cult of warp-tainted heretics. An alternate interpretation of this the cell involves the detection and neutralization of the influence exerted by a warp-tainted artifact.
Cost: 3 (2 for Ordo Malleus or Ordo Hereticus Warbands)
Prerequisites: At creation the cell must possess at least one Adept, Arbitrator, or Priest.
Seventh Sense: Sensitized by their initial contact with the terrible power of the Warp, members of this cell may use Psyniscience as an Untrained Skill. If a member of this Cell already has access to Psyniscience (such as a Psyker or character with the Foot-Fallen Homeworld) they instead gain the Warp Sense Talent.
Unflagging Spirit: As a result of their unflagging faith, hypo-doctrination, or sheer obstinance members of this Cell reduce any gain of Corruption and/or Insanity resulting from direct exposure to the power of the Warp, blasphemous texts, or Sorcery by 1.

 

Xenos Infestation
Members of this Cell have suffered and survived the assault of a xenos warband or raiders.
Cost: 3 (2 for Ordo Xenos Warbands)
Prerequisites: None.
Characteristics: Ballistic Skill, Weapon Skill, or Willpower +2
Bonus Talent or Skill: Exotic Weapon Training (Any One Xenos) or Linguistics (Any One Xenos).
Scarred Spirit: Members of this cell reduce the effective Fear rating of any xeno or group of xenos they encounter by 1. In addition to the previous benefit members of this cell add 10 to their effective Willpower score for the purposes of resisting any psychic power or special ability of xenos origin that grants a Willpower Test to mitigate its effects.
Alienation: The Cell's exposure to alien social mores, willing or not, has left a lasting scar on their psyches, resulting in the gain of 1d5 Insanity points.



#9 Kainus

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:13 PM

 Wow, this really gets my Dark Heresy gears turning again (although it probably doesn't help that I've recently become addicted to X-Files).

The idea of picking a methodical approach for the entire Warband (I prefer the term "Cell", personally) seems a little restrictive and doesn't really tend to develop the character, something I've always felt as necessary during the Character Creation process. Faction makes sense, considering the ideals and training imposed onto the PC's by their Inquisitors, which they don't necessarily need to accept as their own (even though the Inquisitor would prefer it).

I would really love to see more Special Equipment Doctrines, as well as something that would give an Acolyte the basic gear they need. I tied this into the Ordo in my variation, with equipment related to the tasks they would be handling, but I think that this could be tied into Cell Directives, or possibly both.

Also, I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to spend my points leftover on. I don't want to spend it on Equipment specifically, but I've always enjoyed the idea of allowing players to purchase Aptitudes.

I'll probably also end up writing up a Polypsykana faction for your packet, if you wouldn't mind. 

 

 

 


"The union of art and action is death." -Yukio Mishima
Roleplaying games are the most tragic artform.
They represent the death of the folkloric tradition, the understanding that beuacracy touches our identity in ways that the individual can not seperate from themselves. That we can become abstracted into statistics so easily, yet we still demand to tell stories in light of this- because of this. The distinction between human and system has become seamless.
When we roleplay together, we mourn ourselves- how we can no longer communicate without a defined social system- be it race, gender, class, consumer, employer, Game Master, or player. We mourn our human synthesis with systems by employing them to tell stories. It helps us embrace our modern humanity like no other artform.

#10 Plushy

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:18 PM

Kainus said:

 Wow, this really gets my Dark Heresy gears turning again (although it probably doesn't help that I've recently become addicted to X-Files).

The idea of picking a methodical approach for the entire Warband (I prefer the term "Cell", personally) seems a little restrictive and doesn't really tend to develop the character, something I've always felt as necessary during the Character Creation process. Faction makes sense, considering the ideals and training imposed onto the PC's by their Inquisitors, which they don't necessarily need to accept as their own (even though the Inquisitor would prefer it).

I would really love to see more Special Equipment Doctrines, as well as something that would give an Acolyte the basic gear they need. I tied this into the Ordo in my variation, with equipment related to the tasks they would be handling, but I think that this could be tied into Cell Directives, or possibly both.

Also, I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to spend my points leftover on. I don't want to spend it on Equipment specifically, but I've always enjoyed the idea of allowing players to purchase Aptitudes.

I'll probably also end up writing up a Polypsykana faction for your packet, if you wouldn't mind. 

 

 

 

 

Cell is my preferred word.

As for gear, I made a thread about the idea of "Inquisitorial Shipping Containers" that would be dropped in with a party. It would make sense that the average cell would have charge cells and/or autogun mags, a few voidsuits and some Flak Vests, and a couple of grenades (every DH party had them!) It makes sense that different Ordos would throw in a couple extras, and makes the Logistics system make sense. Any ideas?


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#11 Kainus

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:43 PM

Plushy said:

 

Cell is my preferred word.

As for gear, I made a thread about the idea of "Inquisitorial Shipping Containers" that would be dropped in with a party. It would make sense that the average cell would have charge cells and/or autogun mags, a few voidsuits and some Flak Vests, and a couple of grenades (every DH party had them!) It makes sense that different Ordos would throw in a couple extras, and makes the Logistics system make sense. Any ideas?

 

 

Considering the rather stationary nature of my campaign (Acolytes investigating a Hive Sibbelan cult/ sabotaging Monodominant Inquisitors), I dealt with the idea of requisitioning equipment as if it was an online-armory where they could put in requests for equipment. They would/ would not be granted the equipment based on the rarity of the item and the necessity of any other higher-ranking users needing the equipment. There was also a "Don't ask- Don't tell" policy in effect as the "armory" tried to stay as politically neutral as possible. 

Your Inquisitorial Box idea seems really cool, actually. It seems very secret agent-y, "Retrieve the package and proceed to the assassination spot." kind of missions.

So I guess it really matters on the style of game that's being run, but I agree that the Requisition system should be used to this effect and kept out of Character Creation, for the most part.

Still, anything is better than the Throne Gelt-counting Dark Heresy days. That always took me and my players off-guard. I really don't know what BI was thinking.


"The union of art and action is death." -Yukio Mishima
Roleplaying games are the most tragic artform.
They represent the death of the folkloric tradition, the understanding that beuacracy touches our identity in ways that the individual can not seperate from themselves. That we can become abstracted into statistics so easily, yet we still demand to tell stories in light of this- because of this. The distinction between human and system has become seamless.
When we roleplay together, we mourn ourselves- how we can no longer communicate without a defined social system- be it race, gender, class, consumer, employer, Game Master, or player. We mourn our human synthesis with systems by employing them to tell stories. It helps us embrace our modern humanity like no other artform.

#12 Plushy

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:49 PM

 I always do requisition before missions, so it's easy to just say "the Inquisition has approved your requests for a Man-Portable Lascannon, three pairs of magnacles, a psy-focus, and a Verispex Helm. No Psyflame ammunition could be acquired. Ave Imperator."

 

Just have varying cell types give bonuses to things, the way Demolitions or Augmented regiments get bonuses.


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#13 Mercucio

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:42 AM

KAINUS
1. Wow, this really gets my Dark Heresy gears turning again (although it probably doesn't help that I've recently become addicted to X-Files).

Yay! :)

 


2. The idea of picking a methodical approach for the entire Warband (I prefer the term "Cell", personally) seems a little restrictive and doesn't really tend to develop the character, something I've always felt as necessary during the Character Creation process. Faction makes sense, considering the ideals and training imposed onto the PC's by their Inquisitors, which they don't necessarily need to accept as their own (even though the Inquisitor would prefer it).

Are you speaking to Cell Origins? Cell Origin is not a requirement, rather an option. As for the Warband in general per my previous post Ordo, Faction, and Approach are meant to define the overaching aspects of serving one Inquisitor, while Cell Origin & Doctrines help define individual Cells.

 


3. I would really love to see more Special Equipment Doctrines, as well as something that would give an Acolyte the basic gear they need. I tied this into the Ordo in my variation, with equipment related to the tasks they would be handling, but I think that this could be tied into Cell Directives, or possibly both.

I have not touched the Doctrine-equivalent design space yet. It is coming, but I kinda want to resolve the Cell Directive/Cell Origin issue (Regiment) issue first.

 


4. Also, I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to spend my points leftover on. I don't want to spend it on Equipment specifically, but I've always enjoyed the idea of allowing players to purchase Aptitudes.

There will be--I hope--plentiful options to customize individual PCs with (including bonus Aptitudes) after selecting Ordo, Faction, Approach, & (optional) Cell Origin. You do, however, raise a good point about how many points should be available to the group to spend on customization. Right now you can get away with a minimum of 3 BP spend on Ordo, Faction, and Inquisitor, leaving 9 BP to divide between Cell Origin, Homeworld, and Doctrines. 

 


5. I'll probably also end up writing up a Polypsykana faction for your packet, if you wouldn't mind.

I do not mind at all. I purposely excluded Factions from RH as I wanted to leave room for others to develop their own intreprations of extra Factions (aka like the Antiqutari mentioned in Mark of the Xenos under Inquistor Haak). I'll be honest, I am kinda sad no one got my inside joke regarding Inquisitor Jones.



#14 Kainus

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 07:32 AM

Mercucio said:

 

MERCUCUIO

2. The idea of picking a methodical approach for the entire Warband (I prefer the term "Cell", personally) seems a little restrictive and doesn't really tend to develop the character, something I've always felt as necessary during the Character Creation process. Faction makes sense, considering the ideals and training imposed onto the PC's by their Inquisitors, which they don't necessarily need to accept as their own (even though the Inquisitor would prefer it).

Are you speaking to Cell Origins? Cell Origin is not a requirement, rather an option. As for the Warband in general per my previous post Ordo, Faction, and Approach are meant to define the overaching aspects of serving one Inquisitor, while Cell Origin & Doctrines help define individual Cells.

 

 

I was actually referring to Approach. Is this meant to represent the style with which the cell operates or which the Inquisitor operates (And presumably trained his cell to Operate)? My players tended to develop a style of operation different than my Inquisitor would like them to, however. So does the Approach refer to the training that the cell(s) have recieved from the Inquisitor related to his preferred method of operation?


"The union of art and action is death." -Yukio Mishima
Roleplaying games are the most tragic artform.
They represent the death of the folkloric tradition, the understanding that beuacracy touches our identity in ways that the individual can not seperate from themselves. That we can become abstracted into statistics so easily, yet we still demand to tell stories in light of this- because of this. The distinction between human and system has become seamless.
When we roleplay together, we mourn ourselves- how we can no longer communicate without a defined social system- be it race, gender, class, consumer, employer, Game Master, or player. We mourn our human synthesis with systems by employing them to tell stories. It helps us embrace our modern humanity like no other artform.

#15 Mercucio

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:23 AM

Kainus said:

 

Mercucio said:

 

MERCUCUIO

2. The idea of picking a methodical approach for the entire Warband (I prefer the term "Cell", personally) seems a little restrictive and doesn't really tend to develop the character, something I've always felt as necessary during the Character Creation process. Faction makes sense, considering the ideals and training imposed onto the PC's by their Inquisitors, which they don't necessarily need to accept as their own (even though the Inquisitor would prefer it).

Are you speaking to Cell Origins? Cell Origin is not a requirement, rather an option. As for the Warband in general per my previous post Ordo, Faction, and Approach are meant to define the overaching aspects of serving one Inquisitor, while Cell Origin & Doctrines help define individual Cells.

 

 

I was actually referring to Approach. Is this meant to represent the style with which the cell operates or which the Inquisitor operates (And presumably trained his cell to Operate)? My players tended to develop a style of operation different than my Inquisitor would like them to, however. So does the Approach refer to the training that the cell(s) have recieved from the Inquisitor related to his preferred method of operation?

 

 

Approach refer to the Inquisitor's preferred method of operation.



#16 Kainus

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:28 AM

Also, I allowed players to purchase adaptations of the Backgrounds published in the DH sourcebooks at the expense of 1 point = 100 XP, although that might feel too easily confused with Cell Origins. However, I feel that it roots the character in a very specific background which typically helps them generate their character easier.

(Although this might just be my desire not to feel like all of the Dark Heresy books I've purchased are useless! :)


"The union of art and action is death." -Yukio Mishima
Roleplaying games are the most tragic artform.
They represent the death of the folkloric tradition, the understanding that beuacracy touches our identity in ways that the individual can not seperate from themselves. That we can become abstracted into statistics so easily, yet we still demand to tell stories in light of this- because of this. The distinction between human and system has become seamless.
When we roleplay together, we mourn ourselves- how we can no longer communicate without a defined social system- be it race, gender, class, consumer, employer, Game Master, or player. We mourn our human synthesis with systems by employing them to tell stories. It helps us embrace our modern humanity like no other artform.

#17 Kainus

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:20 AM

Mercucio said:

Approach refer to the Inquisitor's preferred method of operation.

Yes, but my question is how does this affect the cell itself?


"The union of art and action is death." -Yukio Mishima
Roleplaying games are the most tragic artform.
They represent the death of the folkloric tradition, the understanding that beuacracy touches our identity in ways that the individual can not seperate from themselves. That we can become abstracted into statistics so easily, yet we still demand to tell stories in light of this- because of this. The distinction between human and system has become seamless.
When we roleplay together, we mourn ourselves- how we can no longer communicate without a defined social system- be it race, gender, class, consumer, employer, Game Master, or player. We mourn our human synthesis with systems by employing them to tell stories. It helps us embrace our modern humanity like no other artform.

#18 Mercucio

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:19 AM

Kainus said:

Mercucio said:

 

Approach refer to the Inquisitor's preferred method of operation.

 

Yes, but my question is how does this affect the cell itself?

Approach defines the shared training provided to the Cell by the Inquisitor, training the Cell members all share in common that drew the attention of the Inquisitor.



#19 Mercucio

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:12 PM

Plushy said:

Kainus said:

 

 Wow, this really gets my Dark Heresy gears turning again (although it probably doesn't help that I've recently become addicted to X-Files).

The idea of picking a methodical approach for the entire Warband (I prefer the term "Cell", personally) seems a little restrictive and doesn't really tend to develop the character, something I've always felt as necessary during the Character Creation process. Faction makes sense, considering the ideals and training imposed onto the PC's by their Inquisitors, which they don't necessarily need to accept as their own (even though the Inquisitor would prefer it).

I would really love to see more Special Equipment Doctrines, as well as something that would give an Acolyte the basic gear they need. I tied this into the Ordo in my variation, with equipment related to the tasks they would be handling, but I think that this could be tied into Cell Directives, or possibly both.

Also, I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to spend my points leftover on. I don't want to spend it on Equipment specifically, but I've always enjoyed the idea of allowing players to purchase Aptitudes.

I'll probably also end up writing up a Polypsykana faction for your packet, if you wouldn't mind. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cell is my preferred word.

As for gear, I made a thread about the idea of "Inquisitorial Shipping Containers" that would be dropped in with a party. It would make sense that the average cell would have charge cells and/or autogun mags, a few voidsuits and some Flak Vests, and a couple of grenades (every DH party had them!) It makes sense that different Ordos would throw in a couple extras, and makes the Logistics system make sense. Any ideas?

Heh, Inquisitorial Shipping Boxes remind me of the Green Boxes from Delta Green. :)

 

Honestly, I would transplant Influence from straight from Ascension rather than try to shoehorn Logistics into it's place. That being said I have been kicking around ideas for bonuses to Logistics/Requisition based on Ordo, possibly as Doctrine option:

Malleus: +10 bonus on requisitioning anti-Daemon/Warp gear. If Radical instead perhaps the ability requisition unholy artifacts/spells/ect at various penalties based on over all power.

Hereticus: +10 bonus on requisitioning anti-Psyker/Mutant gear, +10 bonus requisitioning goods/services from the Ecclesiarchy when the pursuit or persecution of heretics. If Radical ???

Xenos: +10 bonus on anti-Alien gear (of which precious little, if any, exists). Normally you'd think to toss the bonus on to getting access to alien gear would be the main benefit, but given the natural of the Empire that bonus is more appropriate for Radicals.

 

@ Kainus

Also, I allowed players to purchase adaptations of the Backgrounds published in the DH sourcebooks at the expense of 1 point = 100 XP, although that might feel too easily confused with Cell Origins. However, I feel that it roots the character in a very specific background which typically helps them generate their character easier.

Perhaps not surprisingly, I have been considering the same idea.

 

 

Finally, does any have comments regarding the new Cell Origins? I'd like to work on some more but would like a little feedback on the existing examples provided. Thanks!



#20 Plushy

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:32 PM

 Green Boxes were indeed my inspiration ;)

I like the idea of being able to buy backgrounds! The heavy emphasis on character origin may well be my favorite part of Dark Heresy. I plan on writing up quite a few unique Talents/Traits with xp costs and required aptitudes later.


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!





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