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Har ganeth- hag queen

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#1 sherpa74



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Posted 14 August 2012 - 12:55 AM

Hello, i still have this discussion with my partners, Does Har ganeth return my Hag Queen to my hand if she has 3 damage tokens on it? We think no, but we are not sure.

The question is Damage tokens on a creature reduce his HP?


#2 SeanXor



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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:52 AM

 Damage tokens do not reduce HP.  If your Hag queen has three damage tokens , then she has 4 HP and 3 damage, so Har Ganeth can not return her to your hand.  

#3 Sagefoxwood



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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:15 AM

 Arkayne Vampire may help you keep your hag queen out :)

#4 HappyDD



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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:02 PM

 I don't want to step on your toes here, SeanXor, but I don't think you're right. Check out the deckbox unofficially/official rules:


The Har Ganeth rules question is specifically using multiple actions at the start of your turn, but in that example they imply it works on remaining hit points. I think it's obvious that a unit with 3 damage and 4 starting HP now has 1 HP. I say "I think it's obvious" because it would be obvious to me that it has 1 of 4 HP, but in card-game-logic land it might be that the card has 4 HP and 3 damage tokens, and that's that. I wouldn't play it like that, just based on my interpretation alone, but I'm thinking that the Deckbox forum implies my reasoning would be right. 

Also, throughout the FAQ they refer to the difference between HP and damage tokens as "remaining hit points". So I guess I read Har Ganeth as "2 or less remaining hit points". Normally this would get me on my high horse about cards and unnecessary redundancy on cards ruining the game, but I can see how this would be a legitimate concern without leading us down the road of font 4 cards .


#5 Ellyrik



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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:04 AM

I'm sorry HappyDD but you're wrong. Yes it is obvious that current HP should be max HP minus damage tokens. But in this game there is a difference between (printed) HP and remaining HP. Remaining HP take into account damage tokens, but Har Ganeth do not.

By the way Har Ganeth affects less-than-2 units (=1 HP) not 2 or less. And the ruling you're quoting implies HP-reducing effects not damaging effects.

#6 HappyDD



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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:49 AM

Ah, ok, for some reason I didn't read that as "decrease the HP on a damaged unit". That makes this card way less cool than I thought, which is what these rules discussions always do.

I just looked up the rules text "remaining hit points" on deckbox and only one card came up. So every single time a card says "hit points" without "remaining" it means the HP printed on the card? So a 10 HP unit with 9 damage on it still has 10 HP for card text purposes? That seems a bit silly to me, but whatever, I sure as hell don't want the cards to have any more unnecessary text (which Har Ganeth already has… why not just say "1 HP"?)


#7 Paradoks



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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:02 AM

I always read Har Ganeth's hitpoint reference as remaining hit points (= Printed - damage - reduction effects). I don't think "hit points" refers to printed number.

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