Hello. I've been beating around the bush for a while as to whether or not to get into Dust and have finally decided on going through with it as the more I look into it the more I like it. My friend has been interested in the axis and I the allies so that worked out perfectly. We're getting the core revised set to start us off and have begun looking into making our own personal lists at 300 pts since that seems to be the average I'm guessing. He's looking into a walker heavy list evenness going as far as 3-4 ludwigs and the cheapest troops. My lists is an assault and an elite platoon with no walkers. An assault platoon made of hell boys with improved command, BBQ boys, grim reapers, Red devils, sniper team, observer team. Elite platoon is Rhino leading the hammers with air drop upgrade, 2tank busters, a grim reaper unit, and a sniper team. Thoughts? Criticisms? Anything would be appreciated being new to the game completely. The two walkers I was looking into was the cobra and fireball. The theme I was going for was akin to a rapid assault army. Allies need a point taken, send these guys. Even thinking up a name and motto for them.
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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:16 PM
The units you mentioned are good units if you use them the right way and I have no complaints about the cobra walker and the fireball, well anyone that knows me knows how I feel about the awesome fireball. That having been said, you have no reason to have observers in the kind of list you are talking about. Unless you are going to be using an artillery weapon whic you haven't mentioned (and I don't see it worth it for Long Tom strikes if you buy "the boss" command squad) or unless you are using a hero with the leader ability as a command section and want to join them to the observers to get the radios for orders, which you also don't seem to be doing, an observer squad is just a waste of 8 points… Yes, its only 8 points, but 8 points can be the difference of an entire unit when in the points crunch. You want to make sure you cover your bases… you need a mix of anti-infantry, anti-air, and anti-tank. Don't let your buddy dictate your list because he says he is using 4 Ludwigs… You can air drop a fireball full of red devils and wreck two of them just like that and the cobra will make him nervous as well… then there as the hammers and Rhino who can punch the hell out of a Ludwig, etc… my point is, you definitely do not need 2 units of tankbusters and at 35 points each, that is a huge chunk of your army for a single minded unit when you propose using a slew of other units that all have the same ability to destroy medium walkers…. and you just plain can't fit all of those high point units into a 300 point list. Rhino/Hammers, 2 Tank busters, and a fireball are already 205 points and you are not anywhere near having a list that can deal with many of the lists you may see.
You named off soo many awesome things… you don't need them all in a 300 point list though and you don't need to load up on every single unit being anti-tank… try to specialize and have specialized units for specialized tasks…
Welcome to Dust… you are going to love it.
Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:37 PM
I felt I had a decent covering of anti-vehicle and anti-infantry but you are right. I wasn't building mainly off his list, I thought the list seemed capable of tackling everything but air aka the SSU. The points you mentioned have begun to sink in and I'm definitely going to rethink what to exchange for the extra 43 points. Without a combat platoon can't spend it on a cobra or rattler. If I take out a reaper squad and sniper team I would have enough for the fireball. Call her "Annie" and paint a nice buxom red head on her somehow haha. Still doesn't handle my anti-air issues that well.
Thanks for welcoming me and I hope to see you on the battlefield one day.
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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:27 PM
You do have some decent balance there for sure.. I hope I didn't come off as too critical as that wasn't my aim… and you don't neccessarily need single minded anti-air units like rattlers and wildfires to have anti-air as grim reapers will do the job just fine and if you do decide to go the route of the fireball, it will drive off many a chopper as well with two 30 cals and 50 cal turrets so you do have some anti-air covered with the 2 grim reaper squads.. I wasn't saying that you don't have anti-air, anti-infantry and anti-tank bases covered…. I was just saying that you have to cover those bases… my only real point was that you don't have to have 2 tankbusters and that having an opponent with multiple tanks shouldn't make you feel you need multiple units of tank busters. Especially if you are going to run Rhino and the hammers. Rhino and the hammers can jump in behind any tank in the game, go berserk and throw down 8 dice hitting on blanks with re-rolls and do a lot of damage and against a medium walker will pretty much trash one most of the time, even without being behind it. If you use Red Devils, they will likely trash a medium walker as well. A unit of tankbusters have the same medium walker busting potential… so you by no means have to have a heavy walker in your lists. Most people don't. I just commented on the fireball because you mentioned that you liked the fireball and I am one of the biggest spokesmen for the fireball that there is…. but they are 85 points and are tough to fit in if you like the other elite units. I would never dissuade someone from wanting Red Devils, tank busters, hammers, cobras, etc… I have red devils.. I have Action Jackson, I have Hammers and Rhino, and tank busters, and three mediums including the cobra and/or rattler, and all the light walkers, and the fireball, and well, everything you mentioned and I love all of them, and use all of them at different times, at different point levels and in different lists or on different days of the week. They are all awesome. Your list was ok by me…I don't even think you necessarily have to have walkers at all so I was ok with your no walker list to be honest. I only thought having two tankbusters was a bit much with the other choices you had in there… and mostly just because a unit of tankbusters is the most expensive unit there is… and because you could have a cobra for the price of the second tankbuster unit… and Cobras are terrifying, so when they concentrate on the cobra, the other unit of tankbusters is free to jump in to 16" range and make a walker go away. Of course you can only have the cobra in the combat platoon, but that shouldn't be the biggest deal as its good to have a straight up command squad like the Boss for the radio, medic, and mechanic and occosionally a long tom strike will hit if you want some extra long range punch. And you can use any of those other units in a combat platoon as well, they don't need to be in an elite platoon. You could have Grim Repers, Hammers, Tankbusters and Red Devils in a combat platoon if you really wanted to.
In the end, everyone has to play the style that they want and buy the models that appeal to them, that they want to paint and see on their shelf so, by all means, don't let me tell you what to buy. If you are like me and a lot of the other guys around here, you are gonna end up with them all anyway, lol.
But your original list could work… I would probably only use observers if I had artillery weapons which you don't, but other than that, like I said, it could definitely work if those are the models you want to collect the most.
Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:04 PM
You didn't come accross as critical at all. By no means did you. I worry that maybe I came accross as agitated or offensive. Any insight you or anyone else has is more than welcome. Different play styles and views help me figure things out and I hope to contribute sometime too when I get a few games in myself. I thought maybe you noticed in your games grim reapers weren't enough and so on. My biggest worry making this prototype list was the lack of walkers since being new I don't know if it's a viable playstyle. Always hear about the strength of walkers and being all infantry might be a detriment to me. I do like the extra space taking out the 2nd tank buster squad and observer unit gave. Your advice has definitely helped me. Thinking of the fireball list by taking out the second sniper unit and 2nd grim reaper unit to give me exactly 85 pts for the fireball. I do hope to get most if not all the models eventually and fiddle around ideas. Second idea is for steel rain.
Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:59 AM
Welcome to the game SaitoX. And pay attention to Strombole there. He's a master of Allies Tactics. I've found his advice to be sound, and he's like me in that we vary our lists nearly every time we play. (I play all 3 factions heavily). It'll teach you your unit's capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses quicker, and you'll find what works best together for you an your play style.
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:18 AM
Thanks for the compliment brotha! I am certainly more comfortable with the Allies than with any other faction. I am pretty good with Axis and I am only 50/50 (one win and one loss- both were 3 player games) with the SSU, but with Allies, well let's just say I have a good track record with them and my fireball lists are suitably feared in my area. That having been said, a lot of that comes from playing soo much with the allies and changing up my list pretty much every game. If there is a legal allied combination, I've probably tried it… all the way up to 500 point games. The one thing I have found is that more or less any list can win… of course there will be lists that are better than others, especially when you consider your preferred playstyle, but its hard to find a bad unit in the allied arsenal. I find it highly unlikely that I will have much use for Hotdogs and Mickeys now that we have Cobras and Rattlers for the same price, but that doesn't mean that they are not good. I have had many a game when the fast moving, jumping, self repairing Son of a Gun named Mickey stole the show and won the game for me so though I will likely use a Cobra in its place in the future, you will never hear me say a bad thing about the Mickey. Every single unit in the Allied list is good. I remember a time not so long ago when people questioned the usefulness of Grim Reapers as a viable choice for Allies… now they are looked at by many people as one of, if not the best, soldier 3 unit in the game.
While I still believe that Axis has the best walkers in the game, allied walkers are not far behind, for that matter, neither are SSU KV-47s. My advice is the same in the two main games that I play, Dust Warfare and Infinity…. buy what you like and what you want to paint… whatever you decide on, if it makes a legal list, you can probably win with it…. Like I said, there are some hat abviously cover more bases than others but, for the most part, you can make a unit work if you play them right. Especially with Allies. More so than the other factions, Allies are a Jack of all trades army. If you like Tankbusters, they specialize in killing tanks but they can still shoot infantry and (like every single other Soldier 3 allies unit) they have Rocket punches, which are the best multi-tasking tool for allied soldier 3 units… they are equally terrifying to vehicles and soldiers. Allies have less anti-air than the SSU or Axis, but we still have access to the cheap Wildfire walker, the new Rattler, the Grim Reapers who have speed and range to catch most choppers, and though the axis sturmkonig is a beast against aircraft, both of the allied heavy walkers come close to matching the anti-air damage output of the sturmkonig, albeit at less range… and both of our heavy walkers will outperform the konigsluther against aircraft… and our heavies have transport capacity and air drop abilities. Axis soldier 3 are near unstoppable walls of steel, but allied soldier 3s are the multi-tasking masters of the skies. And those that do not have jump packs like Red Devils or Corps Officers deal armour negating death to tanks and soldier units alike, or have the ability to kill soldiers, tanks and aircraft while giving orders and negating cover.
As a final note, I would like to say that Shadow4ce is pretty much the expert when it comes to Dust Warfare… period. I would always suggest taking his advice… of course, in this case, that ends up being rather self-serving since his advice was to take my advice, lol….. I kid, I kid…
Now I have to sit down to some fanatstic tasting pasta and Italian sausage and finish watching the movie "Vexille" which is probably the most badass freakin' animated movie I have ever seen… and I'm not an anime guy… but this is freakin' awesome!
Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:20 PM
Wow I'm about sit down and eat some pasta while watching some crime drama anime myself. Talk about the odds huh? Vexille was pretty badass. Parts reminded me of "Dune" haha.
Thanks for the welcome shadow4ce! I love Strombole's advice and yours helps too. I'll probably have the same units for a while unless I hit big in the casino later this week haha. Here's hoping But I'll at least figure out how to utilize those units well with all the play I'll hopefully get. Too bad I'm not sure if what's the closest place nearby to play or buy from. Only place I know has support for only 40k.
Strombole, just write a book haha. "Allied Tactics and Strategy with your host Strombole". I'd watch it. But I just love the way the Allies units sounded. They knew what they were getting into and the odds they had to survive but knew they had to anyway. Devils, Reapers, Hell boys, love it.