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Dealing with Type 7s


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#1 themailedfist

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:44 AM

Good day all.

 

I'd like to hear other's experiences in dealing with Type 7 Vehicles.  To me they seem to be really tough to kill by anything except another opposing Type 7.  

I'm trying to gear up for a 300 point tourney with my Allies and I don't particularly want to eat up 1/3 of my points with a Punisher but I sort of feel that I must in order to counter other people bringing Type 7s of their own.  Just last night I got to see a KonigsLuthar single-handedly dismantle my army - it killed a walker each turn and the rest of his army kept me from getting close enough to the KonigsLuther with my Tankbusters and British Paratroopers.  It just has so many dice at good ranges that I'm not sure what other alternatives are available but to fight fire with fire.

--Robert



#2 felkor

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:50 AM

Red Devils + Action Jackson - can air drop near heavy and do quite a bit to it, as they ignore armour rolls.

Tank Busters along with Ozz should be able to do some damage too, they can get in close and hit the vehicle from the rear without the enemy being able to react to the movement.

Also remember that even if the armour stops you from doing a lot of damage, armour rolls don't stop you from rolling on the damage chart - enough of the right kind of damage and you can limit the walker's effectiveness on the battlefield quite a bit.


EDIT:  I see you tried tank busters and paratroopers and they didn't work so well… not sure what to say - do 2 command platoons with Long Toms and additional resources, and they might be able to punch a few holes in a heavy.



#3 mariettabrit

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:52 AM

pick a scenario where having that many points tied up in 1 unit is a hinderance, key position maybe… for the allies jump troops and rocket punch make heavies cry…

personally I tend to ignore heavies and focus on the other units… unless that rear side gets exposed :)



#4 felkor

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:06 AM

I made a post and the forums swallowed it up, I'll try again.

If you have some say on what terrain goes on the board, put in lots of LOS-blocking terrain, like buildings, bunker walls, etc.  For me the game is way more fun when you can get out of LOS and go down an alleyway to flank a unit, and for situations like this, it will make it easier to deal with the giant walkers, as you can keep specific units out of it's fire, and also find ways to sneak around and get up close to it.



#5 Shadow4ce

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:08 AM

 You might have a terrain issue. Are you using at least 25% of the battlefield covered by terrain?  Are you placing pieces strategically to allow your Jump Infantry to move into position out of LoS of likely Walker placements?  I find heavies are defeated more in the setup than in the battle itself. As Mariettabrit said, make the scenario be something a heavy suffers at, and then place the terrain in a way to minimize likely firing lanes, then just ignore it or get to it and kill it, whatever best fits the situation. 

*Edit - Felkor, you damn ninja! 



#6 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:22 AM

I can't believe I'm going to suggest this to an Allied player……

The Cobra is the single biggest threat to Axis heavies. Good range, no armor saves, and it's way too cheap for what it can do to a heavy. It can't one shot a heavy, but it can certainly take one down in 2-3 turns. 



#7 Denied

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:04 AM

ItsUncertainWho said:

I can't believe I'm going to suggest this to an Allied player……

The Cobra is the single biggest threat to Axis heavies. Good range, no armor saves, and it's way too cheap for what it can do to a heavy. It can't one shot a heavy, but it can certainly take one down in 2-3 turns. 

 

The issue with the Cobra is you need to have good LOS blocking terrain and you need to position well because as an Axis player if I saw one of those coming and I had a Koing I would turn and one shot kill it with a sustained fire, good luck with your halved armor.

 

I agree though Phasers are a really good way to take out Axis superior armor and the Cobra is a VERY cheap stupidly effective unit when played in the right hands. Then again people say the same thing about my Angela + Sniper team.

 

Also if you're an Axis player the Wotan is a great anti Vehicle 7 do a sustained fire and you should be putting out close to 9 wounds before armor. It's more of a long term (ie 2-3) rounds solution, but for 50AP its a good buy IMO.



#8 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:46 AM

The key thing is the Cobra is cheap and very effective. 3/2 against armor 7 is something to fear and everything is on a turret. Dirty cheatin' Allies…..

If I was an Allied player, it would be hard for me to run a list without one if my opponent was using any walkers. 

 

I have a grudge against the things.

I was smacked around by one…

and my dice helped it…..



#9 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:56 AM

The Allies excel at anti-tank…. For the price of that konigsluther you can get 2 cobras and a honey. Then you have plenty of points for units like Red Devils and Jackson. Tankbusters can do the job, hell, stick Rhino with the Hammers, jump them in behind the walker and go berserk…. 8 dice hitting on blanks and getting re-rolls will be devastating. Even the BBQ squad at close range with the flamer/demo combo will put some hurt on them. And then there is always a combined fire approach. A single upgraded Gunners unit can do a possible 9 damage to a heavy all by themselves… are they likely to do 9… no, but they can contribute to the pecking, and as long as even one damage can squeeze through you have the chance to start nerfing it on the damage chart. And then, of course if you do decide to bring a heavy of your own, you can air drop a fireball for the same price as a sturmkonig and 5 points cheaper than a konigsluther…. and a fireball can go toe to toe with anything when it gets in close… and let's not forget that when the fireball  air drops that you have the option of disembarking the unit inside, so if that unit is say the Red Devils, they climb out within 3" of the fireball putting them around 9" from the heavy and in range of an immediate phaser attack….. Allies have no problems dealing with heavy vehicles…



#10 felkor

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:03 AM

Don't forget Rosie.  Rosie plus Sniper Squad is pretty powerful and can do big damage against all sorts of walkers.



#11 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:30 AM

Ya, that is a pretty nasty combo against armour. It would be funny to see snipers being used for close range tank hunting. 3 grenades and Rosie's bazooka all hitting on blanks and ignoring cover and armour would be hilarious…. "Hey, you are not supposed to use snipers like that!" Did you just do 7 damage to my heavy walker?" "Why, yes, yes I did"  :)



#12 Warboss Krag

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:04 AM

Using Rosie with snipers is a really neat, nasty, Grinchy idea. I'll use that in the future…



#13 blkdymnd

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:45 AM

 Also with the right amount of terrain, use their weapon arcs and cumbersome movement against them.  If you have terrain that doesn't block any Los, you're just setting yourself up for failure.



#14 bulldoguk

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:33 PM

I agree with pretty much what everyone else as said, as history has taught us you drive/walk a tank into a situation where there is plenty of cover for troops with short range anti-tank weapons to close in and it's as dead as a dodo!

I have played Allied in all my games, not through choice but through the fact I let my opponent choose who he wanted to play. I have found the tank busters to be extremely effective at there job and Action Jackson and his Red Devils indispensable. In fact it's come to the point where Jackson and crew have actually become a psychological weapon, soon as the axis player knows they are in the list he holds units back  to cover potential drop zones, putting less lead up front and when they do finally drop in say how do chaps I can guarantee he will throw everything he has at them, last game this gave my busters chance to move in and nail the troublesome Panzer's!

Btw, he has complained once or twice that tanks were too soft but I did explain that on all occasions they were taken out by ANTI-TANK weapons (clues in the name) and he did insist on marching them right into the middle of a city with blind corners and plenty of cover…they got what was coming to them!






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