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Hawkeye expy


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#1 lerak

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 05:30 AM

I blame the avengers.


One of my PC wants to play a Hawkeye-like character. He's thinking of an arch-militant, armed with a high-tech bow and a vast arsenal of arrows. Ok, I'll let him try it, who knows, it may be fun. However, when we looked up what kind of monition there is for a bow, we only found explosive arrows…
So, I have to conceive his stuff myself. Here are my ideas; could you guys give me advice or tips?


-Bow: I'd start with the basic bow, upgrade its penetration value to 2, its range to 40m and remove the "primitive" quality. Then, I would add a fire selector, and a red dot laser sight, and give it the "accurate" quality. Based only on components, that makes a rare weapon, but the upgrades I gave push it into extremely rare territory.
-Arrows: I'd make available the base arrows (silent), + arrowheads that mimic each grenade with no or special damage. Ie: anti-plant, blind, hallucinogen, smoke, stun, web…+1 damaging arrowhead (not yet made my mind up on which, but loud). Those arrows would lose the zone quality, and there effect would only apply to the one hit.


I'd let my player start with the bow, and three types of special arrows he can choose, +the silent ones and the damaging ones. In exchange, he would not get his usual starting weapons, or his starting acquisition.
 



#2 Swelt

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:49 AM

I like the idea; my suggestion for arrow types would be the following
 

  • Inferno Arrows - No change to the damage, If hit the target my make an Agility test or catch on fire
  • AP Arrows - Increased Pen to 3 or 4
  • Snare Arrows - Does no damage but gives the bow the Snare Quality
  • Poison Arrows - Give the bow the Toxic Quality
  • Shocking Arrows – Gives the bow the Stun Quality
  • Krak Arrows – as the grenade

Also maybe a possible upgrade would be for a stronger draw, the bow has a strength requirement which will then increase the damage and pen accordingly.
 



#3 lerak

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 07:12 PM

Perhaps consider the bow as a melee weapon, so that it's damage would be base damage + strenght modifier?



#4 Uncle Screwtape

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:18 AM

 I really like the idea of the SB modifying the damage of the bow. After all, the stronger you are, the more tension you can generate and the more force will be behind the arrow. However, I would cap it at some point (maybe at 5?) and require a trade armouer test/aquisition to increase the SB damage cap. Every bow has a max draw that, if exceeded, would simply snap it in two. 



#5 HTMC

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:36 AM

 Even going beyond just giving arrows plain "Toxic," you could have a lot of fun with applying various chemicals, poisons, etc. with various effects to the arrows, and given the potentially limitless potential of discovering new applyable-liquids, it could make for a very fun constant side-quest for the PC. 



#6 Swelt

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:49 AM

I would suggest making several bows with different strength requirements to use.

  • Standard Bow: Stats unchanged, Strength required 30
  • Next step up: +5m range, +1 damage, +1Pen, Strength required 40
  • Next: +10m range from standard bow, +2 damage from standard, +2 Pen, Strength Required 50
  • Final Bow: +15m Range from standard, +3 damage from standard, +3 Pen, with Strenght Required 60 (also this would be a large bow similar to a heavy weapon in size so maybe require it to be "Braced")


#7 Larkin

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:07 AM

 A simple solution is to just let him have grenade arrows. Same stats as the grenades but with the range of the bow.



#8 Cornwallis

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:06 PM

grappling hook arrow. maybe net arrow although i don't see how that would work



#9 blackwell

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:24 AM

Provided that he got the training for it and was either able to purchase or loot one, perhaps the player might also want to consider getting the krootbow listed at the bottom of p. 146 in Rogue Trader: Into the Storm



#10 lerak

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:29 PM

I tested the bow this week-end. I finally décided the following profile:

group: base

range 40m

pén:2

Clipsize:1

reload 1/2

"accurate","reliable","composite" (home-made, meaning the player adds his strenght bonus to damage)

red-dot laser sight and fire selector

strenght needed : 50

 

It was… way to powerfull.

My player had 5 arrowtypes:

silent: 1d10 damage

explosive:2d10 damage (can't add his strenght bonus) (zone(3))

inferno: 1d10, target must pass agility test or catches fire

web: no damage, gains snare

E.M.P.: no damage, puts all electronic out for 1d5 turns (zone (1))

he had a BS of 53. Thanks to the fire selector, he could shoot 4 arrows before having to reload his bow,meaning he could aim four times before having to just reload, shoot, reload, shoot

When he aimed, he had a BS of: 53+10(aim)+10(accurate)+10(red-dot-lasersight)+10(arch-militant (he choose the base group))=93. Most of his shots made (3d10 + 5 (SB))damage… But we had great fun, so i'll let him have it. If any other Gm gives this bow to a PC, be warned: it hurts.

 

 

 



#11 Swelt

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:34 AM

It sounds like accurate combined with the fire selector is the issue, I would not have allowed the fire selector. But, if you had fun with it then that works too.



#12 lerak

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:56 AM

Yeah, but once I started tracking what arrows he had in the fire selector, it was less of an issue. He would try to prepare for anything, so often he had only two damaging arrows ready, the other two beeing very often an E.M.P. and a snare. But as I sead, it was a great game.



#13 Cornwallis

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:45 PM

I would change the fire selector to some sort of higher tech version of multiple quivers, making it so changing arrow type is full turn. maybe drop red dot unless its some sort of cross bow



#14 NGL

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:28 PM

As an arch-militant by rank 2 he will be reloading it as a free action if he can't already.  The only issue I see with the bow is its more versatile than a bolt pistol with a fire selector.  As a free action with rapid reload he can notch and fire any specific arrow type he is carrying to deal with any specific enemy.  The power of choice is a powerful one.

The only way to limit the power of the bow (without modding its stats down or those of the arrows) is to limit the number of arrows and type he can carry at any given time.  Since he wants a Hawkeye style character he needs the quiver.  One full quiver may carry 10-15 arrows.  Limit him to one quiver and have him detail which arrows he is carrying at the onset of the adventure.

Over the course of an extended mission finding additional arrows may prove difficult.

My thoughts



#15 lerak

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:45 PM

actually, given the complexity of the bow, my idea was that it's reload time could never be brought below 1/2… But I like the idea of the quiver. Seeing how this is the year 40k however, I think he will be allowed to carrie a big number of arrowheads (like 80 or something like that), but the shafts would be limited to 25-30.



#16 Errant

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:47 PM

 Of course then you can have fun with archeotech items like a nanoforge quiver-equivalent that creates arrowheads capable of doing whatever, so long as you keep it filled up with raw materials.



#17 space blanket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:57 AM

Tracking arrow, like an arrow with a tracking beacon head that adheres to solid surfaces and the shaft falls away. For vehicles mainly but i suppose you may not feel it through power armor or something.

Injection arrowhead, similar to the penetrating arrow type as detailed above, but once in penetrates it injects a high pressure gas, dealing extra damage, even more damage in a vacuum environment.

Liquid Nitrogen Arrow head, can freeze liquids as well as dealing extra damage i suppose, but yeh Arkham City style.



#18 lerak

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 05:47 AM

space blanket said:

Tracking arrow, like an arrow with a tracking beacon head that adheres to solid surfaces and the shaft falls away. For vehicles mainly but i suppose you may not feel it through power armor or something.

Injection arrowhead, similar to the penetrating arrow type as detailed above, but once in penetrates it injects a high pressure gas, dealing extra damage, even more damage in a vacuum environment.

Liquid Nitrogen Arrow head, can freeze liquids as well as dealing extra damage i suppose, but yeh Arkham City style.

 

I like the first, not quite sure about the two others though



#19 BangBangTequila

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:08 AM

 Just as both an avid hunter and target shooter and a hobby archer, I would not give it the Accurate quality. I know a man who put an arrow through a ping pong ball at 60 yards, and he is damned good with a 900 dollar bow. As a none-too-skilled shooter, I can put a bullet through that ball every time at 100 yards with a Marlin XL-7 (granted, while prone and taking my time). This doesn't even take into account the incredible difference in things like wind, drift, time to impact, etc which all make a rifle far, far more accurate.

The reload time is a bit of an issue, but I wouldn't cap it at a 1/2 action unless he needs to attach arrowheads individually, which would take more time. I would also consider allowing him to apply Swift and Lightning attacks to the bow, provided he stays stationary and uses a full action, but this is akin to having the arrows in his left hand while he draws with his right (I have seen that man I mentioned fire 3 arrows in 3 seconds. Damn impressive).

For arrowheads, just make them all mini-grenades, with certain specialty tips. Don't reduce damage, but drop the Blast radius by 1/4, if not 1/2 to reflect the lack of the actual mass of the tip. 

If you wanted realism, I wouldn't bother with the increased SB thing. The maximum tension at which you gain a tangible benefit to the power per lbs-pull is 65-70 on a recurve bow. If you bumped it up to 100, you may get a benefit, but it's an inverse exponential curve in terms of strength over tension. Cap it at about 1d10+5 base damage for your AP arrows (grant them tearing when Best Quality, perhaps?) and simply have it be Personalized, with a maximum range of 40 meters. Since the maximum range is iirc 4x the base range, 160 Meters is very, very generous without having them be rockets.



#20 Norticus Noctum

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:01 AM

Well hawkeye maybe good but there are better and older.

Try Justice Leauge series(from season3) the Green Arrow (Initiation episode).

And Yong Justice series for Red Arrow and Artemis.

You will find plenty of concepts, inspiration and help in there.






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