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Quality in Archeotech and xenotech components.


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#1 Vacceo

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:28 AM

Is it possible to install and run Archeo and Xenotech components of different qualities or do they count as "standard quality" in all cases. If degrees of quality components are acceptable, is it possible to reduce space and power requirements for said components?



#2 Citizen Philip

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:22 PM

 You can get starship components of different quality, I believe some components list space or power requirement savings - while some properties are left undetermined - such as best quality.  For example, you could potentially have best quality hangar bars that provide an extra wing of craft beyond a good or standard quality version.



#3 BirdofHermes

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 03:48 PM

Citizen Philip said:

 You can get starship components of different quality, I believe some components list space or power requirement savings - while some properties are left undetermined - such as best quality.  For example, you could potentially have best quality hangar bars that provide an extra wing of craft beyond a good or standard quality version.

The Core Book and "Into the Storm" don't give a clear idea as to what quality does for any ship component, although pg 274 of the Core Book does give an example of upgrading macro cannon quality from common to good.  This may be addressed in "Battlefleet Koronus" but I don't have that book yet so I can't confirm that.

That said I would think long and hard about letting my players simply buy archeotech/xenotech components at any quality in my campaign.  Even amongst Rogue Traders these are extremely rare.  If I am just running modules then I would probably allow it, but if I am running a campaign of my creation I would feel that such an acquisition should be part of an endeavor.



#4 Vacceo

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:20 AM

I do not allow to buy archeotech components, simply because anyone owning it, will simply not sell it. Same goes for xenotech. I use both as plot elements on my campaign. Xenotech is, depending on race, a standard for them. Think for example of the eldar; their grav-sails or runes for war navigation are relatively common elements in their vessels. My guess is they also have diverse qualities just as humans do on their components.

That said, no manual specifies if those components are of different qualities. Let us consider a vessel that belonged to the Space Marines during the Heresy and turned traitor. Many components at the time were standard while ten millenia after that are considered archeotech; if that is the case is it possible to think that even back then they had different qualities?

Another possibility is getting one of your characters to research (typically a Mechanicus member) an old STC, discovering how that old and fogotten component can be further refined into an outstanding and almost unique piece even among components that are, by themselves, outstanding.



#5 Norticus Noctum

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:38 AM

"Into the Storm" or "Battlefleet Koronus" it states what you can do to get Archeotech engine and what that changes in its statistics.

What's more is the fact that even while possesing Archeotech it is of the best quality for everything that is "mass produced" now is much worse compared to the Dark Age of Technology. So even when list AT components they are at thei best (either list somewhere or common sense).

Second Xenotech, well Eldar stuff is millenia beyond human technology so in essence it should be considered standard no matter what. There are also some other alien components and even weapons, that also can have different quality but in weapons section it is Core RB it is stated somwhere that Atech weapons are of Best Quality.

In my opinion you can't upgrade or downgrade Atech or Xtech. The first is at its best and you won't find a techmagos willing to temper with relics, in second knowledge os Xenotech amongst humans is scarce at best so unless you have alien technican for the stuff you won't change it.

Well ther is possibility of making Jokaero do the upgrades but that is different story.



#6 Malakh

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:07 PM

You know, I looked it up and couldn't find anything about the quality of archeotech ship components. Common sense dictates that it cannot be Poor. However, I suppose there can be Good or Best craftsmanship archeotech.

Xenotech, however could probably be of any type of craftsmanship, but the default is Common quality.



#7 HappyDaze

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:37 PM

Malakh said:

You know, I looked it up and couldn't find anything about the quality of archeotech ship components. Common sense dictates that it cannot be Poor. However, I suppose there can be Good or Best craftsmanship archeotech.

Xenotech, however could probably be of any type of craftsmanship, but the default is Common quality.

Craftsmanship can be about current condition as much as design specifications, so there's no reason that Poor examples of archeotech can't be limping along into the present. That's not to say that they were built at that craftsmanship level, merely that that's how it's been not-so-lovingly maintained/restored.


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#8 Fgdsfg

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:11 AM

Malakh said:

You know, I looked it up and couldn't find anything about the quality of archeotech ship components. Common sense dictates that it cannot be Poor. However, I suppose there can be Good or Best craftsmanship archeotech.

Xenotech, however could probably be of any type of craftsmanship, but the default is Common quality.

I disagree. Archeotech should definitely be able to be of Poor Craftmanship, in that they are worn or partly broken, or lack proper maintenance - either because it's been in the ground for 20,000 years, or drifting through the warp for 10,000 years. Either way, I would think that a lot of Archeotech would definitely be of "Poor Craftmanship".

Of course, in most cases, it would still blow current-age tech out of the water and may therefore still be considered amazing by the modern mon'keighs, but my point still stands. An Archeotech Lasgun with a bad flux capacitor could be considered to be of Poor Craftmanship and still be better than Mars-Pattern Lasgun with a newfangled molotov actuator.


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#9 BirdofHermes

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:07 AM

Fgdsfg said:

Malakh said:

 

You know, I looked it up and couldn't find anything about the quality of archeotech ship components. Common sense dictates that it cannot be Poor. However, I suppose there can be Good or Best craftsmanship archeotech.

Xenotech, however could probably be of any type of craftsmanship, but the default is Common quality.

 

I disagree. Archeotech should definitely be able to be of Poor Craftmanship, in that they are worn or partly broken, or lack proper maintenance - either because it's been in the ground for 20,000 years, or drifting through the warp for 10,000 years. Either way, I would think that a lot of Archeotech would definitely be of "Poor Craftmanship".

Of course, in most cases, it would still blow current-age tech out of the water and may therefore still be considered amazing by the modern mon'keighs, but my point still stands. An Archeotech Lasgun with a bad flux capacitor could be considered to be of Poor Craftmanship and still be better than Mars-Pattern Lasgun with a newfangled molotov actuator.

 

I agree with Fgdsfg, though I think we limit ourselves by thinking simply in terms of better and worse.  An archeotech weapon should certainly be more potent than its standard equivalent.  However a poor quality version of the archeotech weapon may not be as reliable.  For a clear book example of what I mean consider a poor quality Archeotech Laspistol versus a common quality Laspistol (pg 118 CRB). 



#10 Fgdsfg

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:33 AM

BirdofHermes said:

 

Fgdsfg said:

 

Malakh said:

 

You know, I looked it up and couldn't find anything about the quality of archeotech ship components. Common sense dictates that it cannot be Poor. However, I suppose there can be Good or Best craftsmanship archeotech.

Xenotech, however could probably be of any type of craftsmanship, but the default is Common quality.

 

I disagree. Archeotech should definitely be able to be of Poor Craftmanship, in that they are worn or partly broken, or lack proper maintenance - either because it's been in the ground for 20,000 years, or drifting through the warp for 10,000 years. Either way, I would think that a lot of Archeotech would definitely be of "Poor Craftmanship".

Of course, in most cases, it would still blow current-age tech out of the water and may therefore still be considered amazing by the modern mon'keighs, but my point still stands. An Archeotech Lasgun with a bad flux capacitor could be considered to be of Poor Craftmanship and still be better than Mars-Pattern Lasgun with a newfangled molotov actuator.

 

 

 

I agree with Fgdsfg, though I think we limit ourselves by thinking simply in terms of better and worse.  An archeotech weapon should certainly be more potent than its standard equivalent.  However a poor quality version of the archeotech weapon may not be as reliable.  For a clear book example of what I mean consider a poor quality Archeotech Laspistol versus a common quality Laspistol (pg 118 CRB). 

 

For homebrewing purposes, I think giving Poor Craftmanship Archeotech Lasguns something like Overheat might be a nice touch. Just throwing it out there, food for thought. Since they probably have above-average power outputs.

 


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#11 Hartzaq

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

For an manufactured item to survive 10 000 years of use and abuse is has to be absolute best of the best in the start, an rare example where best materials, manufacturing and design meets. So I would say all archeotec is inherently best quality. Idea of malfunctioning archeotec is interesting. Longevity of device may have made machine spirits temperamental at the best. It may have been repaired with best knowledge and materials, but still inferior compared to the original. One way to deal with this could be to make all archeotec items unique, with unique stats and temperament. Or use quality attribute

If there where best quality archeotec their rarity would be astronomical. Archeotec itself is rare so best quality would need to be unique or even rarer. If someone found one soon whole empire would know about it and someone with more men, bigger guns and more resources would come and take it away.

It might work as a story device, but as a constant part of campaign, it would just create problems.



#12 Objulen

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:42 PM

Generally, archeotech is presented as superior to anything available in modern Warhammer 40K. So while a glitchy version with drawbacks is possible (and requies scavanging parts from another unit to fix, good luck with that), I'd hesitate to say that it's really possble to have a 'poor' quality version, in so far as the comparison to anything else available in the 'modern' day, because even a damaged or poorly maintained model is going to perform as well as good or best quality components of 'today' in terms of accuracy and/or damage. 






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