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#1 Glendora

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:37 AM

 I didn't find any topic related to this

 

How would Short Fuse interact with a Gug like this one? (how many cards would I draw?)

 

 

I don't know if the word "wounded" refers to "taking 1 wound" (so the short fuse wounds 7 times) or if we must consider the whole action of taking 7 as wounding 1 time



#2 .Zephyr.

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:42 AM

 After Penfold explained to me that you take wounds one by one I'd say two cards, because second wound will destroy him so next wounds will be ignored.

(is that right?)

[edit] hmm i thought gugs text referred to taking a single wound, and it doesn't… at least not 100% clear… with this wording i'm not sure… it also doesn't say "receives one or more wounds" so i'm confused… i still bet on 2 cards; other possibility being 1 card



#3 COCLCG

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:30 AM

no rules lawyer myself, but the action of taking 7 wounds is in the perameters of that single action, and as a response can only be activated once per individual action, i presume its only 1 card.

if it was a disrupt to each individual wound then perhaps 2, but yeah, i'm not 100% sure. im an english major so most of what i know to be the correct usage of the language doesn't apply to the language used in cthulhu-ese.



#4 Glendora

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:37 AM

 Damon just gave me the answer to this:

How would Short Fuse interact with a Gug like this one? How many cards would I draw? (1 per wound or 1 in total?)

None. The Gug's response cannot be triggered from the discard pile since it does not state explicitly that it can do so. It would need to survive the execution of Short Fuses ability and remain in play until the Response window opened up. Then and only then could it trigger its ability. Now if it had a means to trigger its ability each wound would be an opportunity for a response. In order for Laboring Gug to only respond once to a wounding effect rather than each wound it receives it would have to be worded, "Response: After Laboring Gug receives 1 or more wounds, draw 1 card."



#5 .Zephyr.

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:03 AM

 How does it not contradict FAQ fragment:

Some cards respond to leaving play, or to effects that may cause them to leave play. Such responses can be triggered as if the card were still in play. Note that only Response or Forced Response effects can be triggered in this manner, and they must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play. Cards may not take “one last Action” before they leave play. For Example: The “Response:” effect on Professor Nathaniel Peaslee (Core Set F24) can be triggered in response to Professor Nathaniel Peaslee entering the discard pile from play.

Does "effects that may cause them to leave play" mean sacrifice and destroy only? Or is it about something else…

FAQ fragments like this realy cause more confusion then they help if its not about getting wounded.

What about cards like Mi-Go Observer
Resposne: After a Mi-Go character is destroyed, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. Put any revealed Mi-Go characters into your hand and put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your deck in any order.

Can he respond to his own death?



#6 HilariousPete

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:54 AM

Yes, I think you have a point there… I guess the intention of the FAQ rule about Responses on leaving play is, that only responses to effects which explicitly+necessarily cause such cards to leave play may be triggered from an out-of-play-state. Because wounding doesn't necessarily mean that the character leaves play, the Gug's response can't be triggered. (But that's not what is written in the FAQ, what's written is that any response can be triggered from an out-of-play state if it is responding to an effect that may cause its card to leave play…)



#7 jhaelen

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:14 PM

HilariousPete said:

Yes, I think you have a point there… I guess the intention of the FAQ rule about Responses on leaving play is, that only responses to effects which explicitly+necessarily cause such cards to leave play may be triggered from an out-of-play-state. Because wounding doesn't necessarily mean that the character leaves play, the Gug's response can't be triggered. (But that's not what is written in the FAQ, what's written is that any response can be triggered from an out-of-play state if it is responding to an effect that may cause its card to leave play…)

I agree. I'm a bit surprised by the ruling. So far we played it differently because of the quoted FAQ passage. Actually, this might be a reversal of an earlier ruling; I'll have to see if I can find something.



#8 Glendora

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:28 PM

 I'm starting to feel tired of having to ask doubts every time I want to build a new deck…

May I copy what Zephyr wrote (the FAQ) and ask Damon? I think he is right, or at list the FAQs should be re-written at that point



#9 .Zephyr.

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:21 PM

Sure, maybe a bit less "WTF" tone would be better.

I take those rulings too emotional and such "what you thought were rules means something completely else" gets me.

There are a few cards that respond t being wounded and that makes them considerably weaker, but still makes less problems with wierd responce timings so after getting used to this "no responce to wounding that kills you" makes sense.

Mi go observer can still respond? I dont get whats this entry i quoted really about if not wounding.

(other wound responding are a few more Gugs,  Military Advisor, Jaguar Warrior, and more arguably [as they can respond to other characters, have no toughness and need to exhaust] Mr Grey and John and Jessie Bruke)



#10 Glendora

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:36 AM

 I just got the answers:

 

About the gug wounded til death: a player found this FAQs frangment that he thinks may contradict your answer:

Some cards respond to leaving play, or to effects that may cause them to leave play. Such responses can be triggered as if the card were still in play. Note that only Response or Forced Response effects can be triggered in this manner, and they must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play. Cards may not take “one last Action” before they leave play. For Example: The “Response:” effect on Professor Nathaniel Peaslee (Core Set F24) can be triggered in response to Professor Nathaniel Peaslee entering the discard pile from play.

Does "effects that may cause them to leave play" mean sacrifice and destroy only? We thought the case with a gug and the short fuse would be included here as well…

No. There is nothing in the Gug's effect that refers to it leaving play. So this rule is completely inapplicable. To determine this all that needs to be done is compare Professor Nathaniel Peaslee's response to Laboring Gug's and it becomes abundantly obvious.

 

What about cards like Mi-Go Observer? Can he respond to his own death?

This one actually refers to a card leaving play, but the answer is still no. A card's response to another card leaving play is not the same thing as a card's response to itself leaving play and that is what this FAQ entry is addressing, a card responding to itself or an effect making it leave play.



#11 Penfold

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:48 AM

 I could have sworn I answered this Gug question moonths ago but it is good to have confirmation. When you quote from the FAQ you HAVE to consider what it is actually talking about. That entire entry is about a card with a response to it leaving play. Trying to warp it into any response being able to trigger after the card leaves play directly contradicts the Note in the FAQ you quoted.

Wounds are delivered 1 at a time, so each wound is considered to be an opportunity for the Gug or any other card to respond… however as a response it does not come into play until after all cards wounded have left play. So it is dead and since its effect says nothing about it responding to it leaving play it cannot be triggered.



#12 .Zephyr.

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:18 PM

This FAQ entry is really confusing. Especially part about "only responce or forced response, no last action" and this "effects that may cause it to leave play" suggest the opposite… This paragraph should state clearly that only cards that say they respond to themselves leaving play can do it. (and its quite obvious, as otherwise their text would be useless…) Not as a general rule… I know Peelshe is the example, but example is not a rule…

 Good to know the answer. It actually makes things simpler now that i think of it.






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