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#1 Treguard

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:12 AM

http://www.fantasyfl...-cards/wyrm.png

Any guesses as to why this AI Icebreaker has the option to buff strength, when it mainly works on diminishing ICE strength?

It could just be standard option for all Icebreakers, but since  the Corp would need to find a way to lower Wyrm's strength by 2 (to -1) for the Runner to need to buff the program in order to break ICE (assuming strength ties are broken in the Runner's favour, as before), could this be indicative of more aggressive program debuffing by the Corp?



#2 haslo

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:36 AM

It can only affect ICE once it matched their strength, so it can't reduce an ICE's strength before it's sufficiently buffed - unless the ICE is strength 1 only.

Or did I misunderstand your question?



#3 Treguard

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:46 AM

Oh snap, I think you're right.

So it needs to buff itself, just to debuff the ICE to zero and then expensively break it? Daaamn, even if it can break any ICE subroutine that's still.. not good. No chance against Hadrian's Wall as it would cost a whopping 19 credits to break (6 to buff, 7 to debuff to 0, 6 to break the subroutines).

 The real test would be to compare it to another AI Icebreaker I guess.



#4 haslo

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:55 AM

Or combo with something else that then breaks the ICE for free.

Somebody came up with this brilliant step-by-step over on BGG:

  1. Encounter (insert flavor here) ice with strength X.
  2. Boost Wyrm's strength to X.
  3. Reduce ice's strength to Y, where Y is the base strength of your favorite relevant icebreaker whose type matches that of the ice.
  4. Use $0/$1 cost subroutine-breaking effect on that icebreaker.
  5. If ice is a non-standard type (Trap, for example), Wyrm will need to reduce ice's strength to 0 and then spend $3 to break subroutines.


#5 flamejuggler

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:01 AM

 wyrm can also combo with other strength reduction effects like ice carver, so you may not debuff the ice with wyrm, and just use it for its breaking power alone, if you have other -str effects online, or there are ice present with 0 strength naturally. Or you may combo wyrm with another breaker that breaks subs more efficiently, but cant pump its own strength, as mentioned.  if you are rich, wyrm can break ANYTHING by itself, which is very powerful, but costed as such.  anarch likes to combo cards together.



#6 hatori1181

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:31 AM

Treguard said:

Oh snap, I think you're right.

So it needs to buff itself, just to debuff the ICE to zero and then expensively break it? Daaamn, even if it can break any ICE subroutine that's still.. not good. No chance against Hadrian's Wall as it would cost a whopping 19 credits to break (6 to buff, 7 to debuff to 0, 6 to break the subroutines).

 The real test would be to compare it to another AI Icebreaker I guess.

 

Why would you need to buff the Icebreaker if you already nerfed the ICE strength? So long as the 'breaker's effective strength is higher, if can break the subroutines on the ICE.



#7 byronczimmer

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:46 AM

A strength 1 ICEBREAKER cannot affect a Strength 2 or higher ICE.

The ICEBREAKER must first increase its 1 Strength (through a self buff) to match or exceed the target ICE's strength in order to use any OTHER function of the card, such as Wyrm's "$1: Ice gets -1 Strength" ability.

 

So…

$6: Wyrm increases own strength from 1 to 7

$7: Wyrm decreases Hadrian's Wall strength from 7 to 0

$6: Wyrm breaks 2 subroutines on ICE that now has a strength of 0.

 

Next up on 'buried alive', we talk to a dragon who is getting crushed by the weight of all the credits he's hoarding.



#8 haslo

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:14 AM

You know the one feature I really miss on the FFG boards?

 

Thumbs.



#9 hooliganj

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:12 AM

byronczimmer said:

A strength 1 ICEBREAKER cannot affect a Strength 2 or higher ICE.

The ICEBREAKER must first increase its 1 Strength (through a self buff) to match or exceed the target ICE's strength in order to use any OTHER function of the card, such as Wyrm's "$1: Ice gets -1 Strength" ability.

 

So…

$6: Wyrm increases own strength from 1 to 7

$7: Wyrm decreases Hadrian's Wall strength from 7 to 0

$6: Wyrm breaks 2 subroutines on ICE that now has a strength of 0.

 

Next up on 'buried alive', we talk to a dragon who is getting crushed by the weight of all the credits he's hoarding.

However, a strength 7 Icebreaker can affect a strength 7 ICE.

Thus:

$6: Wyrm increases own strength from 1 to 7

$6: Wyrm breaks 2 subroutines on ICE that still has a strength of 7

 

Your middle step isn't necessary.

 



#10 ChaosChild

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:21 AM

hooliganj said:

byronczimmer said:

 

A strength 1 ICEBREAKER cannot affect a Strength 2 or higher ICE.

The ICEBREAKER must first increase its 1 Strength (through a self buff) to match or exceed the target ICE's strength in order to use any OTHER function of the card, such as Wyrm's "$1: Ice gets -1 Strength" ability.

 

So…

$6: Wyrm increases own strength from 1 to 7

$7: Wyrm decreases Hadrian's Wall strength from 7 to 0

$6: Wyrm breaks 2 subroutines on ICE that now has a strength of 0.

 

Next up on 'buried alive', we talk to a dragon who is getting crushed by the weight of all the credits he's hoarding.

 

 

However, a strength 7 Icebreaker can affect a strength 7 ICE.

Thus:

$6: Wyrm increases own strength from 1 to 7

$6: Wyrm breaks 2 subroutines on ICE that still has a strength of 7

 

Your middle step isn't necessary.

 

Except that Wyrm can only break subroutines on ICE with a strength of 0, so the middle step is necessary.



#11 byronczimmer

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:43 AM

hooliganj said:

Your middle step (reducing the Strength of the target ICE) isn't necessary.

 

Wyrm Card

$3: Break ice subroutine on a piece of ice with 0 strength or less

Absolutely necessary to reduce the ICE to 0 strength or less before you're allowed to use that function.



#12 hooliganj

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:54 AM

Received and understood.



#13 Treguard

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:10 AM

You know what? I completely forgot about comboing and that you can use multiple icebreakers per ICE. Weefle mistake.






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