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Hexagramatic Wards and Non-Heavy Armour


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#1 drxn

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:19 PM

Is there any particular reason that only carapace and power armor are able to receive hex. wards?



#2 Cymbel

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:30 PM

I believe it needs to be carved in as part of it, so in reality any non "heretical" solid armor that is thick enough for it. So plate armor as well, but not xeno hide.



#3 Zakalwe

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:37 PM

My Assassin has Xeno Mesh with Hexagramattic Wards.  Granted by GM as a part of an upgrade package provided by the Inquisition, not something I asked for.

GM's call.

Interrogator Z.



#4 Jeff Tibbetts

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:59 AM

 I don't see why you can't do what Z said and have it added to other types of armor. There would be so many ways to add a Hex Ward, whether it's using special materials when you forge the metal (or ceramite or whatever) if it's hard armor or special dyes, threads, embroideries etc. for soft. I would say you could add it to anything. On hard armor, since it's carved in as well, it would be durable. On cloth, it could take damage and the form of the ward could deteriorate. Maybe this was their intention the whole time? I would say, as per GM discretion like anything else but a case can be easily made for softer armor material. 



#5 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:40 AM

I assume the wards are actually machines, not just designs, and hence need solidity.



#6 Jeff Tibbetts

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:11 AM

bogi_khaosa said:

I assume the wards are actually machines, not just designs, and hence need solidity.

Not according to their description, at all. 



#7 Thebigjul

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:42 AM

Hexagrammic wards are part machine with circuit quite like those on "force" weapon and part mystical carving made of precious and durable metal. It's not put on other armour than carapace or energetic for more than one reason;

first : the hexagrammic ward is by essence rigid.

second : Their price, the knowledge and mystical wisdom used when making the ward made it quite an unique piece of precious work and need to be put on something durable. Something that can become a piece of legend not last week T-shirt.

thrid and not the least : Who need hexagrammic ward without naming the inquisition spaceship, inquisitor and more than often Ordo malleus members, and what do you need to challenge and fight demons? A really good armour made by the finest armour master bearing the hexagrammic ward and capable to deal with physical demon attack.

Fourth : the price again… are you really going to by this guard armour for 3000 Thrones? this T-shirt for 2501 Thrones? The artifact is worth a lot of years of working for any imperial average citizen.



#8 Zakalwe

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:39 PM

To elaborate, it is BQ Xenomesh, not a T-shirt and the work was done by order of Lord Caidin so money and workmanship were not an issue.  In the picture I drew I made it look like minimalist occult circuitry. And besides, the GM insisted I would need it to survive the adventure (I did need it) and having everyone in the party in stormtrooper carapace is a bit tacky.

Interrogator Z.
 



#9 Thebigjul

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:46 PM

You could anything you want to but really the Imperium of Man is the least capable of miniaturization.

They like massive and quite stalinian or religious aesthetic.

But once more it's your game. But in my mind the miniaturization process of the Imperium make the littlest computer no more than a full room you can move with the integrated servitor, and the latest model of quil printer is barely 40 pounds.



#10 Luthor Harkon

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:41 AM

--- MINOR DEAD STARS SPOILER INCOMING ---

 

At the beginning of Dead Stars the PCs get hexagramic wards on an armour of their choice (no mentioning of carapace). If they have no armour, they get it on their environmetal bodysuits (does not sound that rigid to me).



#11 Adeptus-B

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:43 AM

I suspect that at least part of the restriction involves game balance: the expense of high-end armour combined with the cost of the wards themselves is intended to restrict their availability to only high-level characters, and take the option off the table for low-level Acolytes who stumble across a few thousand Thrones.



#12 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:01 PM

 Deathwatch characters have access to the most powerful ward of all: the Matt Ward. 

Trolling aside, I see no reason why it can't be added to any armor. For "soft" armors like flak or mesh, it can be sewn or dyed in, while for carapace/power armor it's just carved in. Primitive armor might be a problem, but there is such a thing as blessed sackcloth, so they probably just get the beast furs or whatever and wash it with purified water and oils, possibly add some gold prayer stitching. Naturally, stuff like Eldar bodygloves or Orkish Mega Armour are right out.


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#13 Zakalwe

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:31 PM

Luthor Harkon said:

--- MINOR DEAD STARS SPOILER INCOMING ---

 

At the beginning of Dead Stars the PCs get hexagramic wards on an armour of their choice (no mentioning of carapace). If they have no armour, they get it on their environmetal bodysuits (does not sound that rigid to me).

 

--- MINOR DEAD STARS SPOILER INCOMING ---

 

 

That's how it happened.

Interrogator Z



#14 Azraiel

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:00 AM

Okay, look at it this way: There is a balance to be struck between adhering to and honouring the intention of the rules and doing what you want. Personally I'd love to be able to parry Psycannon rounds with my Force Sword and then flip the bird at the traitorous Zealot who fired them at me, but I don't always get what I want, sometimes I just get a sucking chest wound.

HOWEVER! There ought to be some wiggle room for factors such as doctrine, tradition, varying methods of achieving a result, and awesomeness. If you want a suit of Hexagrammically warded armour, you have to try to justify in some way how an item with…

"Powerful wards, null-psy lattice circuits and prayers of protection are woven into armour carrying this upgrade, often visually represented by ornate carvings and graven icons embellishing its surface."
- Hexagrammic Wards, The Inquisitor’s Handbook pg189


…actually works and makes sense. The rules as written clearly imply you need a large, rigid surface upon which to embed and inscribe all of this stuff.

On the other hand, blind adherence to the rule preventing the use of these wards on armour other than Power and Carapace Armour is by no means always the best course, either. For example, if Lord Inquisitor Caidin himself gifted you a suit of Master-Crafted Dark Age Mesh Armour, each strand link bearing a different and unique hand-engraved symbol of anathema against the daemon, would you raise your hand and say "My Lord! You cannot inscribe holy words upon mesh armour!"?

See how that works? I think that's a fair explanation for how some kind of holy diagram may be permanently applied to a suit of ultra-fine mail armour, it loosely adheres to the principals of warding, and is unique and interesting by virtue of both its' composition and the method by which it was granted to the party.

Another example; in a Rogue Trader game, I wanted to equip and prepare my Missionary for the task of hunting alien witches and defeating vile Deamons in defence of his Lord Captain, so I took a Psy-Jammer as my starting acquisition. Even though there's no mechanical drawbacks to an implanted jammer, the lore implies that the long-term drawbacks are tumor-tastic, so I considered taking a Psy-Jammer amulet instead whilst simultaneously bemoaning how boring this single piece of special, personal starting gear was and considering alternatives.

Then I had an idea, which I brought to my GM the next time I saw him, to which he happily gave his blessing. My Missionary has Hexagrammic and Pentagrammic designs Electooed over his heart, with lines of holy script and machine-codes of warding trailing away around his torso along natural contours, covering his back, forearms and biceps, before finally converging in the form of an Aquila the width of his torso across his upper back, over his shoulder blades. It counts as an Implanted Psy-Jammer. It does not give him brain cancer.



#15 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

 If someone's firing Psycannon rounds at you, then that means they're a Grey Knight or a member of the Ordo Malleus, and you are the traitorous zealot. Not to mention, parrying bullets is simply not done in this setting; even master swordfighters like Lelith Hesperax opt for dodging gunfire rather than deflecting it. Even parrying arrows is stupidly difficult; "Deflect Shot" should not be a talent in this game line. It's generally a waste of XP anyway.


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#16 BangBangTequila

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:02 AM

I believe I can summarize the why. Hexagrammic wards require very precise placement and orientation in relation to the rest of the ward, something that could not be guaranteed with non-rigid armour. The simple act of, say, rolling up a sleeve would negate the entire thing, at least until it is back in place. Carapace and power armour, however, are rigid and strong enough to resist almost any attempts to reorient their pieces, and so make the better choices for hexagrammic warding.

Granted, non-dark heresy warding isn't circuitry, it's just warding. One could actually charge circuitry warding with Tech heresy, since it is tech interacting with the warp…

 



#17 Azraiel

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:01 PM

Boss Gitsmasha said:

 

 If someone's firing Psycannon rounds at you, then that means they're a Grey Knight or a member of the Ordo Malleus, and you are the traitorous zealot. Not to mention, parrying bullets is simply not done in this setting; even master swordfighters like Lelith Hesperax opt for dodging gunfire rather than deflecting it. Even parrying arrows is stupidly difficult; "Deflect Shot" should not be a talent in this game line. It's generally a waste of XP anyway.

 


Because the Grey Knights and the larger Ordo Malleus would never make a mistake out of circumstance, hubris, prejudice, dogma, stupidity or habit. Their incredibly pure pureness makes everything they do pure and just and pure, after all!

And they would definitely never try to massacre Inquisition agents because they "know too much", after deliberately arriving to late to "help" them. That could never happen! Nosiree!

Anyway; I never implied that you could parry bullets, that has not been thing since the Inquisitor tabletop game and other older lore. What you can parry is grenades, it's just a shame you can't influence the scatter direction or add your SB to the distance.



#18 exseraph

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

Azraiel said:

What you can parry is grenades, it's just a shame you can't influence the scatter direction or add your SB to the distance.

This gets dangerous when two characters both start deflecting a grenade back and forth at each other. "Grenade Tennis," they call it.

Back on topic, though, 40k has always treated the Rule of Cool as more important than piddly things like continuity. Allowing wards on lighter armor isn't likely to be a balance issue, so I see no reason not to allow it if you think it sounds awesome.






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