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#1 Fat Marigan

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:43 PM

OK.  I was just playing talisman with a friend.  I was at the crown of command and he was in the Valley of Fire.  I am the wizard and he is the monk.  He is down to two life.  He is also wearing the amulet and has a spell.  I have nullify.  He declares that he drops his amulet and casts his spell, healing.  I say i want to cast my spell in between those two actions so that when he drops his amulet he has to discard all his spells.  Is this legit?  We played it out both ways and it was the difference between victory and defeat for both of us.  Thanks!



#2 Dam

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:07 PM

There is no timeframe for these situations in the Talisman rules. Personally, I play that the active player (whose turn it is) has the first dibs on stuff, so in this case, the player at the VoF could drop his Amulet, then cast Healing before you can zap him with Nullify. Timing of "interrupts" is just one of those things you have to agree upon before the game.


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#3 talismanamsilat

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 08:03 PM

If the player who drops the Amulet declares that he is casting Healing BEFORE you declare that you are casting Nullify, then the Healing takes effect.

I recommend that players say the words '"Spell Casting" before casting any Spells. The first player to declare this casts his Spell which takes effect before another player may cast his Spell (obviously Counterspell or Reflection can be cast to prevent the Spell from working)!

Or as Dam said, give the active player first dibs in casting a Spell, if you prefer,

Ell.



#4 ososober

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:25 AM

i like the munchkin rules of timing, give playes about 3 seconds to repspond to an action, so if monk drops amulet, then wizard has 3 sec or so to cast nullify, (gives each player a time to respond to actionds from others) then, if no responce is done, then monk cast healing



#5 ososober

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:57 AM

or if 2 people want to cast a spell at same time we roll for it, the highest gets in first(fate can be used)



#6 Yad Reklaw

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:38 AM

We use the stack from Magic: The Gathering.



#7 talismanamsilat

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:21 PM

Yad Reklaw said:

We use the stack from Magic: The Gathering.

Which is not how Talisman works with Spells!!!

Ell.



#8 Yad Reklaw

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:53 AM

It seems to me that the rules are not very clear on this matter, so I would like to know why you don´t like the rules that Magic uses? Lifo (Last In, First Out) pretty much handles most of the spellcasting scenarios in my opinion. But I would like to hear your explanation why it´s bad.

 

 

 

 



#9 The_Warlock

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:40 PM

Yad Reklaw said:

 

It seems to me that the rules are not very clear on this matter, so I would like to know why you don´t like the rules that Magic uses? Lifo (Last In, First Out) pretty much handles most of the spellcasting scenarios in my opinion. But I would like to hear your explanation why it´s bad.

 

 

LIFO works if Spells are worded and designed to work with that system. Talisman Spells have casting restrictions of timing and target, usually not crystal clear or consistently explained, while Magic Spells have specific keywords (Summon Creature, Instant, Interruption, Enchantment, etc…) that give you an immediate idea of when a Spell can be played and how long it lasts. Spells with the same timing are resolved with LIFO and that's a decision of rule designers. It's a given rule you can accept and use, or find a house rule you like better.

Spells in Talisman are resolved one after the other, with the only exceptions of Counterspell and Reflection. It is so because Rules and Spell card texts combined together do not allow for more complex solutions. Other Spells cannot interfere with a Spell that’s already cast, not before its full effect takes place.

Another thing that's so difficult to understand is that casting Spells to alter game conditions and make already used Spells unusable, is not allowed. For this reason I always suggest "Never react to Spells by casting Spells, except with Counterspell or Reflection."

Here’s a useful couple of examples:

Example 1: A character engages another character in battle. He casts Marked for Glory to add up to 6 to his combat roll. The opponent cannot cast Freeze, because Marked for Glory has been declared first and the timing keyword assumes that a die roll is going to happen. Freeze negates that roll and cannot be played. If the opponent casts Freeze first, then Marked for Glory cannot be used.

Example 2: A character engages another character in battle. He casts Bolster to roll a die and add it to his attack score. The opponent can cast Freeze to negate the subsequent die roll, because it doesn’t interfere with Bolster. The first character determines the attack score by adding together his Strength and the bonus from Bolster.

The difference between the two is that in Example 1 Freeze interferes with the timing condition of Marked for Glory, while Bolster in Example 2 does not. Bolster can be cast if the character doesn’t roll the die in combat.



#10 talismanamsilat

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

The_Warlock said:

Yad Reklaw said:

 

It seems to me that the rules are not very clear on this matter, so I would like to know why you don´t like the rules that Magic uses? Lifo (Last In, First Out) pretty much handles most of the spellcasting scenarios in my opinion. But I would like to hear your explanation why it´s bad.

 

 

LIFO works if Spells are worded and designed to work with that system. Talisman Spells have casting restrictions of timing and target, usually not crystal clear or consistently explained, while Magic Spells have specific keywords (Summon Creature, Instant, Interruption, Enchantment, etc…) that give you an immediate idea of when a Spell can be played and how long it lasts. Spells with the same timing are resolved with LIFO and that's a decision of rule designers. It's a given rule you can accept and use, or find a house rule you like better.

Spells in Talisman are resolved one after the other, with the only exceptions of Counterspell and Reflection. It is so because Rules and Spell card texts combined together do not allow for more complex solutions. Other Spells cannot interfere with a Spell that’s already cast, not before its full effect takes place.

Another thing that's so difficult to understand is that casting Spells to alter game conditions and make already used Spells unusable, is not allowed. For this reason I always suggest "Never react to Spells by casting Spells, except with Counterspell or Reflection."

Here’s a useful couple of examples:

Example 1: A character engages another character in battle. He casts Marked for Glory to add up to 6 to his combat roll. The opponent cannot cast Freeze, because Marked for Glory has been declared first and the timing keyword assumes that a die roll is going to happen. Freeze negates that roll and cannot be played. If the opponent casts Freeze first, then Marked for Glory cannot be used.

Example 2: A character engages another character in battle. He casts Bolster to roll a die and add it to his attack score. The opponent can cast Freeze to negate the subsequent die roll, because it doesn’t interfere with Bolster. The first character determines the attack score by adding together his Strength and the bonus from Bolster.

The difference between the two is that in Example 1 Freeze interferes with the timing condition of Marked for Glory, while Bolster in Example 2 does not. Bolster can be cast if the character doesn’t roll the die in combat.

I'll have to disagree with this. If a character casts Bolster on himself, another character cannot negate the Spell with Freeze as Bolster is already in effect.

Ell.



#11 The_Warlock

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:04 AM

talismanamsilat said:

The_Warlock said:

 

Yad Reklaw said:

 

It seems to me that the rules are not very clear on this matter, so I would like to know why you don´t like the rules that Magic uses? Lifo (Last In, First Out) pretty much handles most of the spellcasting scenarios in my opinion. But I would like to hear your explanation why it´s bad.

 

 

LIFO works if Spells are worded and designed to work with that system. Talisman Spells have casting restrictions of timing and target, usually not crystal clear or consistently explained, while Magic Spells have specific keywords (Summon Creature, Instant, Interruption, Enchantment, etc…) that give you an immediate idea of when a Spell can be played and how long it lasts. Spells with the same timing are resolved with LIFO and that's a decision of rule designers. It's a given rule you can accept and use, or find a house rule you like better.

Spells in Talisman are resolved one after the other, with the only exceptions of Counterspell and Reflection. It is so because Rules and Spell card texts combined together do not allow for more complex solutions. Other Spells cannot interfere with a Spell that’s already cast, not before its full effect takes place.

Another thing that's so difficult to understand is that casting Spells to alter game conditions and make already used Spells unusable, is not allowed. For this reason I always suggest "Never react to Spells by casting Spells, except with Counterspell or Reflection."

Here’s a useful couple of examples:

Example 1: A character engages another character in battle. He casts Marked for Glory to add up to 6 to his combat roll. The opponent cannot cast Freeze, because Marked for Glory has been declared first and the timing keyword assumes that a die roll is going to happen. Freeze negates that roll and cannot be played. If the opponent casts Freeze first, then Marked for Glory cannot be used.

Example 2: A character engages another character in battle. He casts Bolster to roll a die and add it to his attack score. The opponent can cast Freeze to negate the subsequent die roll, because it doesn’t interfere with Bolster. The first character determines the attack score by adding together his Strength and the bonus from Bolster.

The difference between the two is that in Example 1 Freeze interferes with the timing condition of Marked for Glory, while Bolster in Example 2 does not. Bolster can be cast if the character doesn’t roll the die in combat.

 

 

I'll have to disagree with this. If a character casts Bolster on himself, another character cannot negate the Spell with Freeze as Bolster is already in effect.

Ell.

Well, if you disagree with the above, I suppose I've got it totally wrong after years of rules-talking and forum discussions about Spells in Talisman. This confirms that no agreement about Spells is possible, after all. Rules shall be given, clear rules, or we can simply play as we did before, with no hope to understand how the mechanic really works.

By the way, I didn't say that Freeze negates Bolster, I said that Freeze can work after Bolster has been cast because Bolster adds an additional die to the attack score, not to the combat roll. If you engage in battle, the attack score will be calculated in any case, whether or not you roll a die. Bolster acts on this score and is cast before any die is rolled or any effect is applied. Marked for Glory acts on a die roll and if it is cast a die needs to be rolled. You can't just cast Freeze and say no, you don't roll at all. That's cancelling the casting condition.

 

 






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