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A couple of rules questions


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#1 Radish

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:50 AM

On tiles most of the time the corners on the edges of tiles have broken lines.  Is this intentional in order to stop diagonal movement and line of sight if something is next to them (since you can't technically drawn an uninterrupted line because it goes over the black part of the tile) or is it just a quirk of the art and I am reading too much into it.

Also in the quest "As the Wyrm Turns" it says the Balathor only gets one move action and another action.  Can that other action be his special fly over attack effectively getting him two moves like normal or does the "perform a move" part of that special count as the one move an activation?

Thanks!



#2 Radish

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:51 AM

Gonna bump this just once in case someone that knows the answers missed it.



#3 hooliganj

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:16 AM

Radish said:

On tiles most of the time the corners on the edges of tiles have broken lines.  Is this intentional in order to stop diagonal movement and line of sight if something is next to them (since you can't technically drawn an uninterrupted line because it goes over the black part of the tile) or is it just a quirk of the art and I am reading too much into it.

Also in the quest "As the Wyrm Turns" it says the Balathor only gets one move action and another action.  Can that other action be his special fly over attack effectively getting him two moves like normal or does the "perform a move" part of that special count as the one move an activation?

Thanks!

1. Two squares that touch at the corner are adjacent, even if one (or both) of the other squares touching that corner are missing or blocked. The thick black lines framing the tiles are only decorative, and do not interfere with movement or line of site.

2. I don't have the quest book in front of me, but "move action" is not the same thing as moving. So, I would probably rule that the quest text only prevents Balathor from spending both of his actions as "move actions" and if he happens to have a "special action" that includes movement as part of its effect, then he is free to use it.



#4 Terragen

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:53 AM

I disagree with your opinion stating that the black lines are "simply decorative". The rule book states clearly that any black border is impassable. We have been playing that you cannot go diagonally through these corners, because you can see there is black border covering the white lines. Taking the rules literally, we play this way. I came to the forum specifically to find an official answer to this.



#5 Antistone

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:33 AM

The game is played on a grid.  I think it is extremely unreasonable to assume that anything smaller than a gridspace takes up space unless the rules clearly state that it does.  Especially when you consider that you're dealing with actual physical pieces - they can't make the physical pieces wider than the squares they take up or else you won't be able to fit map pieces next to each other, and they can't make the black line infinitely thin or else players couldn't see it, so graphically the wall HAS to intrude at least a little ways into the space.  They literally could not do it any other way.  So that tells us nothing at all about their intent.

But in addition to all that, the rules also give pretty clear indications that cornering IS allowed.  The "movement example" box on page 7 shows a hero moving between a corner and a monster (#3 on the diagram).  The "adjacent spaces" box on page 8 includes a diagonal that passes a wall, and specifically says that the hero also has line-of-sight to that space.  I think they've made this about as clear as they could have done.



#6 Sausageman

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:15 AM

Terragen said:

I disagree with your opinion stating that the black lines are "simply decorative". The rule book states clearly that any black border is impassable. We have been playing that you cannot go diagonally through these corners, because you can see there is black border covering the white lines. Taking the rules literally, we play this way. I came to the forum specifically to find an official answer to this.

I can't remember how we played it, but I definitely agree with you.  Looking at the doorways in the building tiles, you HAVE to assume those black walls extend into the tiles to prohibit diagonal movement.

Ultimately, you're only talking a couple of movement points difference, so in practice it'll probably make little difference, but for colour, I definitely prefer to think that these walls block movement (and for that reason, I don't like moving/drawing LoS between diagonal blocking terrain).



#7 Sausageman

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:16 AM

Antistone said:

The game is played on a grid.  I think it is extremely unreasonable to assume that anything smaller than a gridspace takes up space unless the rules clearly state that it does.  Especially when you consider that you're dealing with actual physical pieces - they can't make the physical pieces wider than the squares they take up or else you won't be able to fit map pieces next to each other, and they can't make the black line infinitely thin or else players couldn't see it, so graphically the wall HAS to intrude at least a little ways into the space.  They literally could not do it any other way.  So that tells us nothing at all about their intent.

I disagree completely.  Mansions of Madness managed it just fine for starters.



#8 ShineSpark

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 01:39 PM

Page 8 of the rulebook "However, figures may move diagonally (including around corners and between two blocked spaces) and through friendly figures"

If you take a look at the example on page 9 look at the 3rd example. "he can move diagonally to cover more ground. Players should note that the black edge of the map tile does not block diagonal movement around corners"

While none of those specifically talk about tiles like 13 which have doorways that I agree LOOK like they should block movement. I think that the rules lean more towards allowing diagonal movement even if the white borders of the squares don't actually connect at the corner.

 



#9 Terragen

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

I apologise, I am a complete idiot. I read and re-read the manual trying to verify that I'm doing this wrong. Turns out there is a diagram that clearly delineates that movement is allowed diagonally on the corners of tiles. Sorry to be so wrong. :) I should look at the pictures more.



#10 Nexx

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:12 AM

 No one minds that you made a mistake. The end result is all that matters and in this case, it's that we know how that the book says we can move diagonally through corners and blocked spaces and that, we, as a whole, are awesome.

As for the OP and your question about Belthier, since they state he can only perform One move action they do two things;

1. They let the player know that he can use his special fly ability, but not in conjunction with movement

2. They specifically say it's a 'move action' so it ensures players don't try to use that ability twice (thus moving twice)

 

Having said that, if it's just a Move Action, you could use the ability, resolve it, and then attack which in my opinion, is still pretty sweet.

 

- TeamEvil.ca-






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