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Supernatural immunity vs Exceptional magic resistance


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#1 stickman_kenobi

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:21 PM

 Hey everyone, I'm new to Anima, and I'm trying to build a character for an upcoming campaign.

The character I am making is a weapon master, but in his backstory he is heavily resistant to magic for some reason, so I am going to be giving him either the supernatural immunity advantage (GM's handbook), or the Exeptional magic resistance advantage (Core rulebook).

I would like to know the difference between the two, but I don't quite understand them, and I would like to know what either of them are better for.

Thanks in advance.

 



#2 Beadle

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 11:18 PM

 Quite honestly, for a Weaponsmaster, you'd probably be better off with Supernatural Immunity (and from the sound of it, invest heavily in it - possibly the full DP).  As a Weaponsmaster, the fact that you can't get The Gift or See Supernatural is insignificant, because you almost certainly wouldn't have taken them anyway.

Exceptional Magic Resistance, even if you put the full 2CP into it, only gives you a +50 to your MR.  With that, you'd need to be around Level 7 or even higher before your MR allowed you to completely ignore MR checks below 120.  Of course, after that level, it would keep increasing (whereas the Immunity wouldn't), and it will help against MR checks above 120 (which the Immunity wouldn't), so it's a consideration.

And that doesn't even factor in completely ignoring Lightning Bolts, Fireballs etc that haven't had a crapload of Zeon dumped into them.  Which is what a 3CP Supernatural Immunity gives you.

At lower levels, you're basically ignoring mages totally, unless they collapse a building on you.

You could always get both if you wanted, or, when you get up a few levels, exchange one (or even two) of your +1 to an attribute at even levels for the Exceptional Magic Resistance advantage.

It's unusual for a WM to spend so many CP on magic-related stuff, but I'm sure it's not unheard of, and it's how you want your character to be built, so go for it.

Of course, Ki Users, Psychics and Guys With Big Swords will still be just as effective against you.



#3 Arikail

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 11:27 PM

Supernatural Immunity provides you with blanket immunity to all spells of a certain Zeonic value (60, 90, or 100, depending on number of CP invested in the advantage), as well as giving immunity to spells that are below a certain threshold on the Magic Resistance difficulty necessary to resist them (80, 100, and 120, respectively). Something to keep in mind here is that beneficial spells you choose to voluntarily resist have a MR Difficulty of 120. The downside of this "Advantage" is that all spells below the stated Zeonic value cease to work on you, even beneficial ones. That means if you want magical healing or buffs, the caster must invest enough Zeon to overcome your natural "Immunity". Also, it locks out the potential of ever developing the See Supernatural Advantage (if your GM allows you to develop Advantages after character creation, of course), which is one of the few ways the WeM would have of actually being able to see some effects to "Block" them.

Exceptional Magic Resistance does just what it says, buffing your MR by the stated amount (25 or 50, depending on amount of CP invested). This makes you more likely to resist spells that call for Resistance rolls, but does nothing to affect most direct damage spells, only those that have some other resistable affects. On the other hand, it makes it to where you can still receive beneficial spells without any further investment by your friendly neighborhood spellcaster. It does make it easier to resist beneficial spells, should you decide you don't want them to cast that healing or teleport spell on you, however.

Ultimately, the choice is yours. Blanket immunity is powerful, but cuts both ways, whereas the MR buff will only affect some spell effects, and won't protect you from those that do not rely upon MR at all (like most damage causing spells). I hope that that helps make your decision a bit easier.



#4 stickman_kenobi

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 11:44 PM

 Thanks guys this is really helpful, I think I'll just go with the immunity over the resistance.

After that I have 1cp left, is psychic immunity any good? I don't quite get what it does…



#5 Raybras

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 02:42 AM

 Since you are a WeM with magic immunity, i highly suggest boosting your regeneration with that remaining CP since you blocked off most healing spells



#6 Beadle

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:06 AM

 That's a good point.  Make sure you can heal yourself, since nobody else can heal you (well, not without spending bucketloads of Zeon).



#7 stickman_kenobi

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:30 PM

 This has been real helpful, thanks guys.

I think I'll buy a level of the regeneration advantage.

Just wondering. How would a WM normally be built? (Like how would you build one?)



#8 Beadle

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:56 PM

I don't think there IS a "normal" build (and ignore anyone who says there is).

Just go with what feels right for what you want out of the character.



#9 stickman_kenobi

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

 Thanks, everyone, this has been really helpful.

I'll post anymore questions I have here.

Thank you.



#10 ElricOfMelnibone

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:01 AM

 There are tons of builds for Weapon Masters, both munchkin and not munchkin.

See Supernatural is GREAT for a Weapon Master, for example, since it allows him/her to block spells/psychic powers without suffering the Blindness penalty. Also, being able to touch energy is very useful. A couple of points of Martial Mastery (or 1CP worth of Martial Mastery and a meager 10DP) allow you to touch energy with weapons. Coupled with See Supernatural that makes a great non-munchkin combo.

As for the munchkin part…3CP worth of Elan with Noah and 1CP worth of Starting Wealth (or 1CP worth of Social Position from the right countries), grant you a starting +15Quality equipment…add in an Artifact and make it just +10 (gets to +20 thanks to Noah!) and you have a character beginning the game with OUTRAGEOUS starting equipment. If you badly want the weapon to get to +25 in combat, add in there the Warlord Kami's Blood.

For uber-tanking I'd suggest a 2XFull Shield Build…including quality bonuses you should really begin the game with extremely high block rate. Get Notice to 50 and add the Guardian Magnus to the mix. Also the Secondary Weapon: Defensive Style module works very fine for the Weapon Master. The most powerful CP ability for a tank is anyway Eternal Blood. It's just too good for 1CP even with the Level Modifier.

Another powerful build is: Duk Zarist with Constitution 11 (Regeneration9), spend 2CP for +2CON (getting to 13CON, hence Regeneration11), 3CP for Greater Regeneration (for Regeneration 17), 1CP Toa's Blood (Regeneration18).

Improved Resistances are always fine, but I can't see how a Weapon Master suffers supernatural more than the average warrior or acrobatic warrior.

Of course Survivor and Hard to Kill are always good choices for tank builds. Also, a definitely underestimated advantage is Untiring. Additional Fatigue Points are VERY powerful, especially when fatigues are the only thing you use in combat to boost yourself.

As you can see there are a lot of good builds for Weapon Masters. The main point is: what kind of character do you want to build?

Anyway, Noah's Elan is always fine with Weapon Masters and you won't get enough of it, believe it!



#11 Beadle

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:18 AM

 I thought "Equipment" from Noah only affected stuff that didn't already have a +10 bonus.  Could be wrong though.  That's just from memory.



#12 Raybras

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:32 AM

i once made a technician who had 3 cp worth of untiring :D for a total of 20 fatigue level 1



#13 Beadle

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:03 AM

Raybras said:

i once made a technician who had 3 cp worth of untiring :D for a total of 20 fatigue level 1

Perfect choice for a techie, because add a bit of Martial Mastery and he could afford to get Use of Necessary Energy at Level 1 and start being able to add +75 to your actions.



#14 Raybras

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:24 AM

 Here ya go

Name - Miyako Inami
Gender - Female
Class - Technician
Level - (0/100)
Life Points - 155 (0/20 DP)
Size - 15 5'9", 145 lbs

Appearance
  • 7
  • Image
  • Miyako has piercing blue eyes to the point that they seem to bore through you when looking straight into them. Her black hair is as long as a horses mane, and It's softness comparable to that of fur from a newborn fox. Slightly taller than the average person from Shivat, proudly showing her stature. Miyako wears all kinds of clothes, elegant, practical and comfortable, yet her favorite piece is the hoodie given to her by someone precious.

History
  • Miyako Inami is the eldest of 3 siblings. Her brother and sister, Kamui and Shizuno, are about 10 years younger than Miyako. Having been born in this family, she was entitled to be the heir to the Dojo. Her father was a strict man, obligating her to learn the arts of the house, telling her it was her duty to watch over her younger siblings. Miyako didn't mind this, she loved both her brother and sister. Under the tutelage of her father, she underwent intense physical training to be able to endure the physical fatigue that can come from prolonged fighting. This was the way of the Inami, "fall to combat before falling to fatigue". 

    Even after all the training, she felt ad though her passion was still to be found. She was fond of art and crafts, but when she saw what song could achieve and how it could change people, she knew she found that which she was looking for. Thankful to her martial discipline, she had the focus and tenacity to pursuit singing on her free time. Sometimes she would sing to her mother or her siblings, other times she would sing by herself while looking at the moon. She explored many types of songs and singing methods. 

    There came a day when Miyako's father deemed her ready to learn the way of Savage Instincts. Over the following year, she learned how to control her inner energy. She noted at how slow the control was and told her father, who then told her she could muster physical fatigue to push the flow of energy within. After the hard year, she knew how to control and exteriorize her self and her energy. At this point, she was taught the second art of the family, Velez, which would show her how to strike a presence and not just a physical body. 

    Come her 18th birthday, she recieved a grey hoodie from her siblings. She would cherish it more than she expects unbeknownst to her. At this point, both her martial, physical and vocal training had come to a point where she knew and felt she was better than the some of the more advanced people in those domains. But it still wasn't enough, Miyako yearned to become better. 

    Later that year, she noticed that her brother was slightly changing. Miyako thought it normal for a growing boy and dismissed the strange feeling. Lately he also took more interest contemplating the gamily heirloom, an old samurai armor from her great great grandfather. More days passed by and Miyako's brother seemed more and more sombre. She wanted to help him but thought that he just needed space. 

    One windy night, she woke up after hearing a loud rattling sound. She looked around the house for the source, noticed the front door was open and dashed out. She saw her brother wearing the heirloom, alongside a stranger of unknown origin. Miyako yelled out to her brother and both he and the stranger turned to look at her. She saw the look of surprise, sadness and regret on Kamui's face before the stranger lifted a hand towards her. Kamui saw this and grabbed the arm and shook his head. The gaijin seemed to sigh and looked back at Miyako. Miyako felt very tired all of a sudden, she couldn't keep her eyes open fr some strange reason. Then she slumped on the ground where she was. 

    Morning came, she was covered in Kamui's favorite coat, with a note in one of the pockets. Then it hit her, memories of the previous night came flooding back. Tears streaked her face as she ran inside to wake everyone up and tell them what ha happened. Despite all that happened, Miyako eas determined to retrieve her brother, no matter the cost. She packe her things against her father's will and left that same day, following the tracks of her dear sibling.

Characteristics
  • STR 5 +0
  • AGI 8 +10
  • DEX 7 +5
  • CON 11 +20
    • INT 5 +0
    • POW 9 +10
    • WP 6 +5
    • PER 4 -5

Advantages
  • Add one point to Constitution - 1 CP
  • Untiring - 3 CP
  • Ki Recovery - 1 CP
  • Martial Mastery - 1 CP
Disadvantages
  • Nearsighted - 1 CP
  • Bad Luck - 1 CP
  • Feeble - 1 CP

Resistances
  • Base Presence 30
    • PhR 50
    • MR 40
    • PsR 35
    • VR 50
    • DR 50

Wear Armor - 0 (0 DP)
Movement - 90 ft / 90 ft with armor
Fatigue - 20
Regeneration - 4(3 without inhumanity) (30 hp/day resting)
AT (Base/Armor)
  • Cut (0/0)
  • Impact (0/0)
  • Thrust (0/0)
  • Heat (0/0)
  • Elec (0/0)
  • Cold (0/0)
  • Energy (0/0)

    Inventory
    • Money
      • 0 GC
      • 00 SC
      • 00 CC
    • Add lists as you see fit

    Combat
    • Unarmed Initiative 60
      • Martial Arts 60
    • Base Attack 80(150 DP)
      • Martial Arts 85
    • Damage (with Aura Extension)
      • Martial Arts 50(Tangible Ene)
    • Base Block 5 (0 DP)
      • Martial Arts 5
    • Base Dodge 90 (130 DP)
    • Martial Arts 90

    Modules
    • Tai Chi Expert (25 DP)
    • Velez Base(50 DP)

    Ki Ability
    Ki Points
    • STR - 10 Ki (5 DP)
    • DEX - 10 Ki (3 DP)
    • AGI - 10 Ki (2 DP)
    • CON - 12 Ki (0 DP)
    • POW - 10 Ki (1 DP)
    • WP - 10 Ki (4 DP)
    Ki Accumulation
    • STR - 1 Accum (0 DP)
    • DEX - 1 Accum (0 DP)
    • AGI - 1 Accum (0 DP)
    • CON - 2 Accum (0 DP)
    • POW - 1 Accum (0 DP)
    • WP - 1 Accum (0 DP)
    Martial Knowledge - 140 Spent/140 Total
    Ki Abilities
    • Use of Ki, 40 MK
    • Ki Control, 30 MK
    • Presence Extrusion, 10 MK
    • Aura Extension, 10 MK
    • Use of Necessary Energy, 10 MK
    Dominion Techniques
    Savage Instincts
    • Predator's Blitz, Level 1, 40 MK
      • +2 Additional Attacks
        • Added Fatigue Bonus
        • Combo
      • Damage Augmentation +40
    • Elemental Bind: Water, Fire
    • 5 Agi, 5 Dex, 5 Pow, 5 Str, 6 Con


    Secondary Abilities 
    • Athletics
      • Acrobatics 40 (20 DP, 10 Natural, 10 Characteristic, 10 Cultural)
      • Athleticism 40 (20 DP, 10 Characteristic, 10 Innate, 10 Cultural)
      • Climb 25 (10 DP, 10 Characteristic, 10 Cultural)
      • Ride -20 (0 DP, 10 Characteristic)
      • Jump -30 (0 DP)
      • Swim 25 (10 DP, 10 Characteristic, 10 Cultural)
    • Social
      • Intimidate -25 (0 DP, 5 Characteristic)
      • Leadership -20 (0 DP, 10 Characteristic)
      • Persuasion -30 (0 DP)
      • Style 25 (10 DP, 10 Characteristic, 10 Cultural)
      • Trading -30 (0 DP)
      • Streetwise -30 (0 DP)
      • Etiquettte -30 (0 DP)
    • Preception
      • Search 5 (20 DP, -5 Characteristic)(-45 if using vision)
      • Track -35 (0 DP, -5 Characteristic)
      • Notice 30 (50 DP, -5 Characteristic, 10 Cultural)(-20 if using vision)
    • Intellectual
      • (all unusable or -30 if not knowledge skill)
      • Memorize 20 (30 DP, 10 Natural)
    • Vigor
      • Composure 20 (10 DP, 5 Characteristic, 10 Natural)
      • Feats of Strength -30 (0 DP)
      • Withstand Pain -25 (0 DP, 5 Characteristic)
    • Subterfuge
      • Theft -25 (0 DP, 5 Characteristic)
      • Disguise -25 (0 DP, 5 Characteristic)
      • Hide -35 (0 DP, -5 Characteristic)
      • Stealth -20 (0 DP, 10 Characteristic)
      • Trap Lore -25 (0 DP, 5 Characteristic)
      • Lock Picking -25 (0 DP, 5 Characteristic)
      • Poisons Unusable (0 DP)
    • Creative
      • Art -20 (0 DP, 10 Characteristic)
      • Dance 25 (10 DP, 10 Characteristic, 10 Natural)
      • Music(singing specialization) 80 (40 DP, 10 Characteristic, 10 Innate)
      • Sleight of Hand 20 (10 DP, 5 Characteristic, 10 Natural)
      • Forging unusable (0 DP)
      •  



#15 stickman_kenobi

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:58 PM

 What is the feat of strength secondary advantage normally used for? The description doesn't really mak it too clear…

Would it help improve my initiative with my enourmous size two-handed sword?



#16 ElricOfMelnibone

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:48 PM

@ Beadle: Equipment states that it grants +10 Quality to used items unless their Quality is already higher. In my math +10 is not higher than +10 (while +15 is). So a +10 Item (which can be easily obtained with 1CP worth of Artifact), should become a +20 Item.

@stickman_kenobi: in theory the Feats of Strength secondary ability is used in non-combat situations, although using it to lift a chariot and throw it at someone is absolutely correct. Personally I allow my players to use Feats of Strength once per fight scene to increase their STR for 1 attack (they are pushing it over their normal limits) and, considering the GM toolkit states you can use Str to reduce Initiative penalties of weapons instead of adding to damage, I would allow its use for that too, still limiting the use of Feats of Strength to once per combat situation.



#17 Beadle

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:06 PM

Elric of Melniboné said:

@ Beadle: Equipment states that it grants +10 Quality to used items unless their Quality is already higher. In my math +10 is not higher than +10 (while +15 is). So a +10 Item (which can be easily obtained with 1CP worth of Artifact), should become a +20 Item.

Fair enough.  Like I said, I was going from memory.  :)

 

 

 

 

 



#18 F3nr1s

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:07 PM

Elric of Melniboné said:

@ Beadle: Equipment states that it grants +10 Quality to used items unless their Quality is already higher. In my math +10 is not higher than +10 (while +15 is). So a +10 Item (which can be easily obtained with 1CP worth of Artifact), should become a +20 Item.

I understand the ruling a little bit different. In the englisch corebook is written, that the equipment acquires +10 Quality. Now "+10 Qualtiy" is a game term and the "+" doesn't mean "add" in this case and acquires does also not mean "add". So I see no point to "add" the +10 to existing quality. The only thing states is: This "power" can't make a tool/weapon worse (it can't reduce the existing quality (+15 to +10 for example), it only can make it better or doesn't change anything).

It would also a little bit odd, because a weapon with +10 quality would became better, than a already better weapon, with +15, and all in the same hands. This example can't be used on other cases, for example: a weapon with no quality and a weapon with +5 quality would both become weapon with +10 qualtiy, so the "+0 quality weapon" wouldn't be better as the +5 quality weapon (but it wouldn't be worst).

So long,



#19 Beadle

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 03:23 AM

I agree - that was my understanding of how the power worked.

As you say, for a +10 weapon to be more use to a follower of Noah than a +15 weapon doesn't make a lot of sense.

As far as I was concerned, a +0 or +5 weapon (or other item) used by someone with that Gift automatically becomes a +10 item.  Nothing gets any better than that, unless it already starts off as a +15 or higher weapon.



#20 ElricOfMelnibone

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:12 AM

Fair enough, I guess we are interpreting and  ruling it differently. Wording in Anima is often tricky and open for diversified interpretations.

Anyway starting with complete +10 equipment is far from weak as a perk and the "Ignore Penalties" power is simply put awesome. Also Dark Power is very useful for Weapon Masters since it allows them to compensate lack of "special bonuses".

Finally starting with 60 Elan with Noah gets you A LOT closer to 70 and 80 with the same deity, granting "Against All Adversities", "War Aura", and most important of all "Dark Avatar", one of the best gifts out there. Finally "The Vanquisher" although hard to achieve is definitely one of the best Avatar powers from ALL Shajad/Berils, if not the best at all.

 

As a final note: it's not "typical weapon master" build, but believe it or not Jack of All Trades is an extremely good asset just for ANY character, weapon masters included. I gave it to a weapon master I'm using as a PC (my only PC at the moment, sigh!) and find it definitely worth the CPs spent.






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