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Declaring and Battles questions.


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#1 TheChris01

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:14 AM


I have been over the rules and, although most of it makes sense, I can't seem to find the exact rules to decide what to do in the following situations:

"A" Territory is adjacent to "B" Territory, and "B" is also adjacent to
"C" Territory.

"A"--"B"--"C"

"A" is an occupied enemy territory
"B" is my territory
"C" is an unoccupied enemy territory


In situation (1)
Assume that "B" has only one infantry unit.

I want to attack the enemy units in "A". After combat, assuming the infantry unit survives, I want it to invade the unoccupied "C"

Therefore, it possible to declare 2 Battles with a single unit? Only one is classified as a battle, as the other in an attack on an unoccupied territory.


In situation (2)
Assume that "B" has two infantry units.

Again, I want to attack the enemy units in "A". After combat, assuming any infantry units survive, I want them to invade the unoccupied "C"

Therefore I declare two battles, one in "A" and the other in "C"

In the combat action can I use both infantry units to battle "A" or would I have to split my forces and have one infantry "attack" the unoccupied "C"?


If anyone knows the answers to these questions that would be great.

Thanks.
 



#2 marcelvdpol

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:45 AM

All units that are adjacent to an area with a declared battle marker have to be assigned to a specific battle (or have to be assigned specifically NOT to participate in a battle). Each unit can only participate in one battle. Empty area's that have a battle marker STILL have to be assigned at least ONE attacking unit.

In case 1 it means that you CANNOT declare two battles since you do not have two units in order to assign at least one unit to each battle. In case two it means that, yes, you can declare a battle against BOTH area's, but the non-empty area can only be attacked by ONE unit (as the other unit has to be assigned to attack the empty area).

Note that this only applies to battles; once the battles are over and the game moves to the Invasion Movement phase, you are allowed to move your units as you see fit. Units are not obligated to move into area's where they were assigned as an attacker, nor are they obligated to actually move into now-empty area's where you declared a battle. For example in case 2: suppose that you declared one unit to the empty area and one unit to the non-empty area and all defenders in the non-empty area were destroyed during combat while your unit survived. In this case, it is perfectly legal to move BOTH friendly units into one of the empty area's and thereby NOT capturing the other area. This is allowed, although ofcourse it will result in one area not changing to a FRIENDLY area in the last step of the phase. So if you move both units into the empty area where the defender had units, you will NOT capture the empty area and will again have to declare a battle and assign a unit to attack it during the next turn (if you want). It is even allowed to let the units remain in place or move to a friendly area. You do not HAVE to capture area's that you declared battles in; you are only obligated to assign units to FIGHT there (ie roll dice).



#3 TheChris01

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:46 PM

 

Thanks for the answer, it made a lot of sense until the very last line:

 

marcelvdpol said:

… ; you are only obligated to assign units to FIGHT there (ie roll dice).

Are you saying that if a territory us unoccupied, and therefore "battle" is skipped, I an NOT obliged to send a unit to FIGHT there?

 

I understand the idea that you can't declare more battles then there are attacking units. Despite not finding the exact rule to prohibit this, it seems like a logical assumption.

However, the requirement to assign a unit to attack an empty territory is a bit unclear. Are you quoting something from the rule book, or a house rule? I found the book interchanging terms like "Battle", "Fight", "Attack", and "Combat" to be a bit confusing.

 

I understand the options about movement, I am only confused about the attack.

Do I have to assign a unit to "attack" each unoccupied territory that I declared a battle in?

 



#4 marcelvdpol

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:09 AM

I agree that the words in the rulebook are a bit "vaguely" chosen, but here are the (according to me) relevant passages from the rulebook:

 

P010 - The player must declare which territories he plans to attack during his Combat Action and/or invade during his Invasion Action. Each of these territories is considered a Declared Territory.

Battles are declared ONLY against enemy territories (either occupied or unoccupied).  -

From this I conclude that a battle always takes place if you placed a battle marker on a territory, regardless whether or not its empty.

P012 - When a player declares an attack (done in the Combat Action phase) he must have units in Combat Position by the end of his Maneuver Phase.

Special Combat Position Rules: if the units in a territory are in combat position with more than one declared territory, a player must choose which of those Declared Territories each unit will attack (or choose that the unit will not attack this turn). He may divide his units to attack more than one of those Declared Territories, but each unit can participate in only one battle per turn, so before beginning his Combat Action, the player must announce which territory each unit will attack and place the unit near the Declared Territory's border.

From this I conclude that, since Battles take place even if the enemy territory is empty (P010) and since each unit can only participate in one battle per turn (P012), you need to dedicate at least ONE unit to attack an empty enemy territory. The act of placing a battle marker in an empty enemy area (or in the case of the US player: turning over a Control Marker) is the actual Battle declaration; the battle however does not actually START until phase 5 (Combat Action).

I most certainly would have liked it a lot more if there would have been a turn example where this would have been made clear. The question has popped up several times already and even my playgroup did some digging through the rulebook.



#5 TheChris01

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 09:00 PM

You Section three does sound like you need to send a unit….

 

However, in section five COMBAT ACTION on Page 015 it says that "Players do not resolve battles in unoccupied enemy territories, even if they are declared territories."

 

It sounds to me like if there is nobody there to fight, then the fight doesn't happen.  And If that's true, then why would I be required to send a unit to fight at a location without a battle?

 

Section three says one thing, but I read section five to say another.



#6 marcelvdpol

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:18 PM

However, in section five COMBAT ACTION on Page 015 it says that "Players do not resolve battles in unoccupied enemy territories, even if they are declared territories."

It sounds to me like if there is nobody there to fight, then the fight doesn't happen. And If that's true, then why would I be required to send a unit to fight at a location without a battle?

 

I read this to mean that you skip the "rolling dice" part of the battle (which makes sense because there are no enemy units to hit). But to me at least there is a difference between Declaring a Battle and resolving one. According to P010 battles have to be declared against both enemy-occupied as well as empty area's. So you would need at least one unit to participate in a battle in an empty area. You do not however roll dice there as there are no units to shoot at.

 

I'm quite looking forward to the FAQ though.



#7 Kracky McKraken

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:29 AM

The main reason to declare a battle in an unoccupied enemy territory is to cut off possible retreat routes for your enemies. Whether you choose to actually move/invade the combat unit(s) you're declaring the battle into the unoccupied enemy territory with is up to you.

 

The mission of cutting off your enemies will have been accomplished whether you capture the unocuppied enemy territory or not.






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