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Targeter Question


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#1 Thaddux

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:03 PM

I have a question regarding the targeter wargear on page 135, which is stated as reducing all penalties on ranged attacks by one step.

 

Say that, for example, I am firing an autogun using full auto (-10), at a target in fog (-20), who is in combat with an ally (-20) and I'm fatigued (-10).  This imposes a cumulative penalty of -60 to my ballistic skill test.

 

Does the targeter reduce the cumulative penalty of -60, to -50, or does it reduce each individual penalty by 10, meaning that the final penalty is only -20 (-10 for the fog, and -10 for the nearby ally)?

 

 



#2 HTMC

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:08 PM

Thaddux said:

I have a question regarding the targeter wargear on page 135, which is stated as reducing all penalties on ranged attacks by one step.

 

Say that, for example, I am firing an autogun using full auto (-10), at a target in fog (-20), who is in combat with an ally (-20) and I'm fatigued (-10).  This imposes a cumulative penalty of -60 to my ballistic skill test.

 

Does the targeter reduce the cumulative penalty of -60, to -50, or does it reduce each individual penalty by 10, meaning that the final penalty is only -20 (-10 for the fog, and -10 for the nearby ally)

 

That's a really good question, after re-reading the item descriptions I'm forced to say… I have no idea. I think the wording needs to be cleared up, because the 'all' could mean "every individual penalty" or "every time you make a BS test, regardless of the context." Good catch.



#3 Hiro Protagonist

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:11 PM

I would say that that your first instinct is correct, Thaddux. Your overall Ballistic Skill Test Difficulty to spray the bad guy that's beating on your buddy while in a fog and you're tired is Hellish (-60). The Targeter takes this down one step to merely Punishing (-50). It does not break down the Ballistic Skill Test Difficulty into its component difficulties and reduce each by one step. The Test Difficulty is your cumulative total. As a big fan of snipers, the Targeter is a great piece of gear, don't get me wrong. It ain't THAT good, however…. My advice? Make sure you tell your buddy to duck first, and maybe recite the Litany of Accuracy a few times prior to pulling the trigger…..

In all things Beta-ish, however, clarification from Above wouldn't hurt….

 



#4 MILLANDSON

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

Modifiers are always all added together before finding the final total, so yea, it'd just be 1 stage reduction for the whole modifier, taking it from -60 to -50.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#5 Thaddux

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:11 PM

That is the most likely case.  I would say that the other option would be quite a smart piece if wargear though, if it's rarity were ramped up somewhat (probably a nice bit of tech for a Vindicare).

In any case, the wording on this needs to be much clearer, and an explanation from a FFG official would make me very happy.



#6 Cifer

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:07 AM

Considering it's only Rare, it's probably meant to give a +10 in total.

Next question: Does it apply to a shot where the total modifier is positive? For example, making a single shot (+10) at long range (-10) after having aimed for a half action (+10)? There are penalties, but they're outweighed by the bonuses.



#7 vogue69

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:19 AM

we play it like this:

the targeter negates one -10

so aiming with full auto is +10. (-10 full auto +10 targeter +10 aim).

and aiming with semi burst is +10 (0 from burst, 0 from targeter +10 aim).



#8 ParadigmShift

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:53 AM

Although it does say reduces penalties I would probably have it reduce the difficulty of the shot one step period so +10 becomes +20, wording definatley needs cleaning up though.



#9 vogue69

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:03 AM

that would be the same as a red dot laser sight.

combining those two would give a steady +20 BS.

A bit steep imho.

 

btw how far does a red dot work?



#10 ParadigmShift

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:11 AM

Well red dot is only in effect with single shots so it wouldn't be a stead +20BS if your going to be using your gun on semi/full auto or for supressing fire. 



#11 Thaddux

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:15 AM

I would have thought that something that employs multiple cogitators to improve accuracy, would do more than reduce a single penalty by 10.  Also, shouldn't this thing count as a sight?



#12 Cifer

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:21 AM

Also, shouldn't this thing count as a sight?

The fact that it doesn't is kind of the point. Combine it with a scope for a really good sniper weapon, put it on something with a red-dot for extremely good single shots,…



#13 Frankie

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:23 PM

I just count it as +10BS. It solves all the problems that way.



#14 DJSunhammer

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 05:52 AM

Frankie said:

I just count it as +10BS. It solves all the problems that way.

This is a bad idea. It makes the Targeter much more powerful than it is supposed to be for it's Availability bracket.

I don't really understand this discussion, you are creating problems where there aren't any. The Targeter is simple, it makes hard things easier but doesn't affect easy things.



#15 Thaddux

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

DJSunhammer said:

Frankie said:

 

I just count it as +10BS. It solves all the problems that way.

 

 

This is a bad idea. It makes the Targeter much more powerful than it is supposed to be for it's Availability bracket.

I don't really understand this discussion, you are creating problems where there aren't any. The Targeter is simple, it makes hard things easier but doesn't affect easy things.

 

Exactly, but how many 'hard things'?

Wow, that sounded more NSFW than I meant it to…



#16 DJSunhammer

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 02:45 PM

?

How many hard things can there be? Maybe I should have been more clear. The rules as written are fine. The targetter makes shots with a penalty easier. It doesn't make already easy shots, or ones with some kind of bonus, any better.



#17 Thaddux

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:19 AM

DJSunhammer said:

?

How many hard things can there be? Maybe I should have been more clear. The rules as written are fine. The targetter makes shots with a penalty easier. It doesn't make already easy shots, or ones with some kind of bonus, any better.

Scroll up to my first post.  That's the point of this thread.  I know it doesn't provide a bonus to easy shots.  But does it work on the overall penalty, or on each individual penalty?



#18 Santiago

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:49 AM

 Only on the grand total of penalties…



#19 MILLANDSON

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:53 AM

Santiago said:

 Only on the grand total of penalties…

Aye, since every previous example of an item/skill/power/etc that has deducted from a penalty has deducted from the total, not from each individual penalty.

I'm just not seeing the issue - it reads fine to me.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#20 Thaddux

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:58 AM

MILLANDSON said:

Santiago said:

 

 Only on the grand total of penalties…

 

 

Aye, since every previous example of an item/skill/power/etc that has deducted from a penalty has deducted from the total, not from each individual penalty.

I'm just not seeing the issue - it reads fine to me.

Could you cite some examples?






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