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Moritat using a Force Sword


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#1 jabberwoky

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:06 AM

Related to the topic "Moritat using a Power Sword", is there any specific dogma against a Moritat becoming a psyker and thus using a force sword to slay heretics in the God-Emperor's name?

I realize that the Ecclessiarchy has a non-negotiable line on psykers, but since Death Cult orders are more… esoteric… in their interpretation of the God-Emperor's will, is becoming a psyker not kosher with them?  If a Moritat was a nascent psyker, would he be killed immediately because his blood has been touched by the warp during his travails?  Or would he be trained by specialists, teaching him the ways of a force sword, similar to the Templar Calix of the Scholastica Psykana?



#2 Cymbel

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:51 AM

I would say NO in the doctrines of their cult. Psykers/Witches are to be abhorred, Sanctioned Ones are more in the realm of "tolerate, but keep a blade close by"

Now, by the Ordo Sicarius Alternate Rank, assassins CAN gain a psy rating of 1 (letting them use force weapons as force weapons) and in Ascension if you went a non-death cult ascended career, you could possibly take the mind's eye opens giving you either psy rating 1 or +1 psy rating.

The real question is, WHY would you want to?



#3 antijoke_13

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:50 PM

Cymbel said:

The real question is, WHY would you want to?

why not? 

if a Moritat assassin ends up as a psyker, the chances of him ending up as one of the scariest forces in the game are pretty high. it's like that Sororitas background from RH, but with the potential for much, MUCH more power. say a Lathe Forged sword reconstructed as a force weapon, plus the tearing that comes with Moritat, AND the benefits of Ordo Sicarius AND the potential benefits of Moritat reaper AND the chance to become a primaris psyker or Inquisitor? witches, aliens, and Daemons, tread lightly: there is something out there scarier than you.



#4 Cymbel

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:00 PM

I meant from a roleplaying aspect.



#5 antijoke_13

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

 hm. good point. 

perhaps you give yourself up for sanctioning, and the emperor in his Grace decides you serve him better in life than in death? likely the Moritat collective would then be interested in whether or not your soul had been tainted, but assuming you can pass though whatever crucible hell they come up with successfully, they PROBABLY wouldn't kill you. It could be done, but i figure the psyker assassin in question would likely have both the inquisition and the Moritat watching him much more closely than before (which is never a good thing)



#6 Cymbel

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:19 PM

I disagree, they probably WOULD kill you. It is one thing not to kill official psykers (which some of them would kill anyway for being a witch), but something ELSE for it being one of THEM.



#7 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:04 PM

 A great deal of Imperial propaganda focuses around fearing and hating the witch, and death cultists tend to take the Imperial Creed to fanatical extremes, so if a Moritat turns out to be a psyker, I'd imagine the very least they would do is kick him out, if they don't just kill him on the spot. He might still hold onto the tenets of the cult and practice its creed even if he's no longer a member, so you'd keep the Bloody Edge trait, but you can forget about becoming a Reaper.

That's how I'd do it anyway.

Also, nascent psykers are generally taken away for sanctioning (or killed) so if he's discovered, he'd have to retire his character (or reroll him as an Imperial Psyker rather than an Assassin). And if he does try to get a force sword, people might get suspicious as to why a "non-psyker" would want one.


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#8 Seeten

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:40 PM

If he's a serious fanatic, he might off himself.



#9 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:51 AM

 Right. Commit ritual suicide to cleanse his soul of his taint. Even the Moritat would forgive him for his sins if he did that.

But either way, the end result is the same; you can't be a psyker AND a death cultist. It simply doesn't work that way.


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#10 Cymbel

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:45 AM

Besides, if you want to use Force Weapons and be an "assassin" the templar calix is the best way to go, it even gives you a "free" force sword.



#11 Kshatriya

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:19 PM

Cymbel said:

The real question is, WHY would you want to?

Cheese, duh.



#12 Phi6891

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:37 PM

antijoke_13 said:

 hm. good point. 

perhaps you give yourself up for sanctioning, and the emperor in his Grace decides you serve him better in life than in death? likely the Moritat collective would then be interested in whether or not your soul had been tainted, but assuming you can pass though whatever crucible hell they come up with successfully, they PROBABLY wouldn't kill you. It could be done, but i figure the psyker assassin in question would likely have both the inquisition and the Moritat watching him much more closely than before (which is never a good thing)

Well what would his psy rating be? Because the psy rating is added to both damage and pen on the force sword, so how are you going to build a psy rating beyond 1? Then there is the second part of the attack of with making a Threshold of 6 and making opposed WP test, how good is your WP going to be if you up your other states first as an Assassin?



#13 jabberwoky

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

I believe that someone who develops psychic powers (if they're not a sanctioned psyker) is allowed to gain psy ratings as elite advances.  It's costly, but I never said that becoming a psyker-assassin would be easy.  I simply wanted to know if it would be possible.



#14 antijoke_13

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 05:22 PM

 it's possible. there are some *ahem* fluff issues, but it can be done. once you hit ascension, it becomes significantly easier to be a psyker assassin



#15 Phi6891

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:48 AM

jabberwoky said:

 

I believe that someone who develops psychic powers (if they're not a sanctioned psyker) is allowed to gain psy ratings as elite advances.  It's costly, but I never said that becoming a psyker-assassin would be easy.  I simply wanted to know if it would be possible.

 

 

Where does it say that if you develop psychic powers you can get psy ratings as elite advances over and over again? Otherwise your basicly going to elite advancing being the whole psyker career if you do that. And do you get that first psy rating as an assassin?

antijoke_13 said:


it's possible. there are some *ahem* fluff issues, but it can be done. once you hit ascension, it becomes significantly easier to be a psyker assassin

 

 

 

 

Well anything is possible if you just allow stuff to happen. The rules that are presented in all these books are just suggestions on how to play the game, it's up to the people who play the game that choose what to accept and play by.



#16 jabberwoky

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:13 PM

Phi6891 said:

 

Where does it say that if you develop psychic powers you can get psy ratings as elite advances over and over again? Otherwise your basicly going to elite advancing being the whole psyker career if you do that. And do you get that first psy rating as an assassin?

 

 

Dark Heresy, Ascension, pg. 67

Interrogator- Ascended Traits: The Psyker's Gift

"As with their masters, many Interrogators are psykers and develop their powers under their masters tutelage.  You must already be a psyker to select this trait.  You may select the Minor Psychic Power Talent as an Elite Advance for 500 xp, the Major Psychic Power Talent as an Elite Advance for 750 xp, or the Ascended Psychic Power as an Elite Advance for 2,000 xp.  You may also increase your current Psy Rating by +1 as an Elite Advance for 1,500 xp.  The xp cost of the Ascended Psychic Power talent may be reduced in the normal fashion (see pg. 125)."

And now, I will probably answer my own question that I had at the beginning of this thread.  If a Moritat Assassin gained a mutation that game him psychic powers (Wyrdling mutation or Nascent Psyker elite advance), he would either off himself, or turn himself into the authorities of the Black Ships.

However, if the assassin had proved himself valuable enough (or pure enough) to his master, and he survived until Ascension (no small feat), the Moritat could become an Interrogator, thus gaining more psychic power, and using a force sword to the best of his abilities.  He could not become a Death Cult Assassin (as I previously thought), but he has at least one way to keep alive.



#17 Kshatriya

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:46 PM

Any GM allowing a Moritat to take Nascent Psyker is just asking for it. Although, it makes for a very easy "off this character" fiat power.



#18 Cymbel

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:30 PM

Don't forget Ordo Sicarius, which can give both assassins (and techies) psy rating 1



#19 jabberwoky

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:40 PM

True, but that brings up a question: if a non-Imperial Psyker character took the Ordo Sicarius alternative career and bought the Psy Rating 1 talent, would he be considered a rogue psyker?



#20 Phi6891

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:35 AM

Is a Nascent Psyker consider a  psyker by the rules, On page 160 of the core rule book under "Am I A Psyker?" it says your consider a psyker by having one of the psy rating talents but seeing as it continues on saying that you can get psychic powers by other ways but it says nothing about those other ways saying that you are considered being a psyker as well.

And in what book is Ordo Sicarius in?






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