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Reanimate Familiar and hero status


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#1 RDJ.Papabear

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:02 AM

As we were in the midst of battle this weekend we came upon a question we we unsure how to resolve.

The Shadowdragon text says that a HERO adjacent to it need to roll a surge to hit.  Does the necromancer's Reanimate familiar count as a HERO?

Thanks!

 

RDJ.Papabear



#2 KristoffStark

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:47 AM

RDJ.Papabear said:

As we were in the midst of battle this weekend we came upon a question we we unsure how to resolve.

The Shadowdragon text says that a HERO adjacent to it need to roll a surge to hit.  Does the necromancer's Reanimate familiar count as a HERO?

Thanks!

 

RDJ.Papabear

We had this issue come up as well, and determined that while the Reanimate is treated as a "figure" it is not a "hero."

The rationale being, to me, that the Shadow Dragon uses shadows to confuse and disorient those adjacent to it, requiring the surge to hit.  The undead critter cannot be so disoriented, so it does not apply.



#3 radiskull

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

Yep.  On the Reanimate card, it says that it's treated as a hero for (IIRC) all purposes.



#4 KristoffStark

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:01 AM

radiskull said:

Yep.  On the Reanimate card, it says that it's treated as a hero for (IIRC) all purposes.

I'll have to take a look at that when I get home.



#5 Coldmoonrising

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:23 AM

 No need, here is the reanimate card:

It's treated as a figure and not a hero. Considering that it's reanimated dead, I'm gonna go out on a ledge here and say its like other "undead" things and not fear death/shadows and other such "things" so there for it probably won't need to spend a surge as well. Now if I had an image of the Shadow Dragon card we could make a real decision here.



#6 Antistone

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:07 PM

Rules p. 18, Familiars Treated as Figures:

"Some familiars, such as the Reanimate, are treated as figures (as indicated by its Familiar card). …. They may be targeted and affected by monster attacks, hero abilities, and Overlord cards that target a hero."

Notice this list include monster attacks, and also includes hero abilities, but does not include monster abiliites, so by a strict reading the reanimate is not affected by dragons' Shadow, barghests' Howl, and the like.



#7 RDJ.Papabear

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:20 PM

 Thanks for the clarification!  We came to the same conclusion but my youngest son(the overlord) felt differently.  I told him I would check the forum and see what others thought. 

Thanks for the help!  This is an awesome game.

Papabear

 



#8 Rico

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:32 PM

I have to go with it having to role the surge based on the last line in the rules stating the OL can play cards against it as a hero.  But, some official clarification would be nice. In fact, FFG should revise the familiar rules all around soon, as there are many other questions floating about the forums regarding how the reanimate is to be played.



#9 Honking weasel

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:55 PM

 I too would read that as the familiar needing to roll a surge to be able to hit the shadow dragon

In general the emphasis is that reanimate and villagers/militia should be treated as heros in all applicable tests e.g. Castle daerion states that villagers pass 

All tests they are required to make and militiamen fail all tests so should be the same for the shadow dragon question too and need to get a surge

Besides the overlord needs all the help he/she can get 



#10 SpankeyCheeser

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:09 PM

A similar question we had was can the Reanimate pick up the food and store it in the Fat Goblin quest?  Same thing, does it count as a hero or just a figure.  We ruled that it couldn't, but I could see it go either way.



#11 RDJ.Papabear

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:24 AM

You are coming up with the same questions we have been stumbling with.  I would agree with the Reanimate not being able to pick up food. Again not a Hero.  But the not having to roll a surge to hit the Shadow Dragon seems to make it more powerful than the actual Heroes.

I also shot the question to FF Support to see what they would say.  I have not heard back yet but I will post their reply when they do.



#12 Antistone

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:31 AM

SpankeyCheeser said:

A similar question we had was can the Reanimate pick up the food and store it in the Fat Goblin quest?  Same thing, does it count as a hero or just a figure.  We ruled that it couldn't, but I could see it go either way.

Regardless of whether the reanimate counts as a hero or not, picking up or storing a crop requires an action, and the reanimate has no "open" actions that it can choose how to use - it just gets a move action and an attack action.

For the same reason, the reanimate cannot open or close doors, nor can it revive a knocked-out hero.



#13 Paco62

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:14 AM

Antistone said:

SpankeyCheeser said:

 

A similar question we had was can the Reanimate pick up the food and store it in the Fat Goblin quest?  Same thing, does it count as a hero or just a figure.  We ruled that it couldn't, but I could see it go either way.

 

 

Regardless of whether the reanimate counts as a hero or not, picking up or storing a crop requires an action, and the reanimate has no "open" actions that it can choose how to use - it just gets a move action and an attack action.

For the same reason, the reanimate cannot open or close doors, nor can it revive a knocked-out hero.

We struggled with whether a Reanimate could pick up the food or not as well.  I am not sure in the rules where it states that a reanimate only gets a move and attack action, but I may have missed it.  It would make sense, though.



#14 exy

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:21 AM

Paco62 said:

We struggled with whether a Reanimate could pick up the food or not as well.  I am not sure in the rules where it states that a reanimate only gets a move and attack action, but I may have missed it.  It would make sense, though.

The rules in the Familiars section says that familiars on the board can only take one move action on their turn, plus whatever other actions its card allows.  The Reanimate says it is allowed an attack per turn.



#15 Paco62

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:39 AM

exy said:

Paco62 said:

 

We struggled with whether a Reanimate could pick up the food or not as well.  I am not sure in the rules where it states that a reanimate only gets a move and attack action, but I may have missed it.  It would make sense, though.

 

 

The rules in the Familiars section says that familiars on the board can only take one move action on their turn, plus whatever other actions its card allows.  The Reanimate says it is allowed an attack per turn.

Missed that part when we were talking through it last night.  Thanks for the clarification. 



#16 exy

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:48 AM

Paco62 said:

exy said:

 

The rules in the Familiars section says that familiars on the board can only take one move action on their turn, plus whatever other actions its card allows.  The Reanimate says it is allowed an attack per turn.

 

 

Missed that part when we were talking through it last night.  Thanks for the clarification. 

No problem. We were allowing the Reanimate multiple moves and attacks for a few rounds before I happened to notice that.  (I think we were checking whether he could grab crops..)



#17 Mcmanus

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:30 PM

 Also can a Knight use Oath of Honor with the Reanimated as a target?,It says must be used on a hero. And in the rulebook it says:

They may be targeted and affected by monster attacks, hero abilities, and Overlord cards that target a hero.

But nothing about : hero abilities that target a hero.

 

Thank you=)



#18 Malgamus

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:07 PM

They may be targeted and affected by monster attacks, hero abilities, and Overlord cards that target a hero.

But nothing about : hero abilities that target a hero.

 One could read that as all three items that target heroes. It was only stated once at the end to avoid redundancy.

It'd like to point out that a familiar that is treated like a figure, the reanimate in this case, fails any attribute tests and can be affected by conditions as stated on pg 18 in the rules under the "Familiars Treated As Figures" section.

Personally, I would rule that the Shadow ability of the shadow dragon would affect the reanimate or any familiar that is treated as a figure in this case.



#19 RagePeon

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:00 AM

Malgamus said:

One could read that as all three items that target heroes. It was only stated once at the end to avoid redundancy.

It'd like to point out that a familiar that is treated like a figure, the reanimate in this case, fails any attribute tests and can be affected by conditions as stated on pg 18 in the rules under the "Familiars Treated As Figures" section.

Personally, I would rule that the Shadow ability of the shadow dragon would affect the reanimate or any familiar that is treated as a figure in this case.

 

I'm going to support this interpretation.  It makes the most sense and doesn't appear to leave any loose ends or wiggle room.  

But either way I think the game will be fair if you decide one way or the other:  Either it IS treated as a hero and can be targeted by <target hero> abilities from both GOOD and BAD sources, or it is NOT and it can not.  There are pros and cons for both sides of the conflict here, so pick one for now and stick with it until an official ruling.  My 2 cents.



#20 Rajja29

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:51 PM

What if anything happens to the reanimate if the necromancer is killed?






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