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Some clarification needed regarding Favoured Weapons and Additional Standard Kit Items.


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#1 Hiro Protagonist

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:13 AM

Okay, so the Week One Beta Update was released and offered Favoured Weapons to the Regimental Creation rules. An excellent idea both for flavour and Regiment specialization options. Now here is my question: In the Additional Standard Kit Items, the Update also gave us the option to add one Favoured Basic Weapon and One Favoured Heavy Weapon. The interpretations seems to be that you can add these weapons to our starting kit. Does this seem a little unbalanced to anyone else? Basically, it seems to me that anyone, regardless of Speciality, can start the game with a Long Las or A Melta Gun or somesuch. I had always thought that getting hold of this type of gear was the domain of the Heavy Gunner or the Weapon Specialist at start (hence the point of taking those Specialities).

I had thought that the Favoured Weapons rule already gave good access to these weapons down the road, per the Logistics Test. It makes you work for the better kit. After all, fluff-wise, why is the Departmento Munitorum just gonna hand out a very expensive Melta-Gun to a footslogger just out of basic who doesn't know their lasgun from their boot-lace, when there are Specialists out there actually trained to use these weapons? 

It's my read on this rule that perhaps instead, you pay the Additional Equipment points to add additional Favoured Weapons to the two your Regiment begins with. For example, for a homebrew Regiment I'm working on, I chose the Long Las as my Favoured Basic Weapon, and the Autocannon as my Favoured Heavy Weapon. I'm thinking that if I pay for 10 or 15 points for the additional Basic/Heavy, that would mean I can decide to add Heavy Stubbers to the mix as weapons my Regiment prefers to use, in addition to the Long Las and Autocannon. Doesn't mean every man-jack in the regiment has instant access to this prime gear, only its easier to get hold of.

I mean, the rules of the Additional Standard Kit Items do state that adding certain items to your kit does require the GM's Discretion. If I were running a game, regardless if your Regiment prefers a certain weapon type and you should have easier access to them as a result, I'd have some serious concerns when everyone in that regiment could theoretically have access to a Heavy Bolter as Standard Gear…..   Not Specialty gear, not awards for good RP, not stuff that was "creatively acquired" from that regiment a dozen tents over…. Standard kit. These are Imperial Guard. Not Storm Troopers. Not Space Marines. I get that you will eventually have access to the good stuff, but there is no way in hell I'd ever let my players start the game with this kinda gear, UNLESS they choose the Speciality that warrants it. A Heavy Gunner would have ready access to an Autocannon, and a Sniper would have access to a Long Las if those are the preferred weapons of the Regiment, but every trooper having a Melta in their rucksack? NOOOOOO!!!!

Could you imagine it? Seriously. The Achilus situation would have gone much differently. "Alrighty boys and girls, PRESENT MELTAS! GET 'EM!!!" *FWOOSH!!!* *sizzle* *crisp* *poke poke* "Right. Next Crusade, then?"  

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 Santiago

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:20 AM

 Do not forget we are talking about one item for the entire squad, not an item per trooper.



#3 Hiro Protagonist

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:32 AM

That would be reasonable, Santiago, but where in the rules is that specified? In the Test Regiments I've seen on the board, I've seen some limit this to a single Squaddie, and others are more than happy to add it to everyone. It could be I missed something, I will admit, but again, as written in the updates, its not clear…. Any direction you can point me in is appreciated.



#4 Andor

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:43 AM

My reading of that rules was the same as yours, you are paying to add to the list of favored weapons, not to actually issue them.



#5 KommissarK

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:29 AM

While I agree it should be clarified, I read it as saying "add one weapon to the squad," in a similar manner as an auspex or advanced med kit. If read in that manner, I don't think its broken.

It's only broken if you read it as one as standard kit for everyone.



#6 Magus Black

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:38 AM

I was wondering the same thing and after all this looking about it seems the answer is:

 

It doesn’t exist, it seems that its simply a house-rule likely based off the Imperial Codex and nothing more.

While I agree that neither the Regiment Basic/Heavy weapon should be available to every Specialty saying that there can only be one per squad is equally absurd. If half the Players are Weapon Specialists can one honestly say they will tell their Players that only One is allowed to have a Long-Las, especially if their ‘squad’ is supposed to be a sniper team and everyone else only has laspistols (there will be resentment amongst other thing). The same applies to Heavy Weapon Guys, think of the nonsense if the Regiment Heavy Weapon is Missile Launcher, only one guy gets the weapon that other Regiments get by default and everyone else is stuck with Heavy Stubbers.

The only ‘definite’ per Squad Items are vehicles (sentinels, tanks, A.P.C.) the other items are more ambiguous and may/may not be due to the choice of wording (The Advanced Medi-kit, the Auspex, and the box of Screamers). I does need clarification that the added Regiment weapons are not added to the Standard Kit but to the ‘list’ of Regiment Weapon Choices.
 



#7 Lynata

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:29 AM

Magus Black said:

While I agree that neither the Regiment Basic/Heavy weapon should be available to every Specialty saying that there can only be one per squad is equally absurd. If half the Players are Weapon Specialists can one honestly say they will tell their Players that only One is allowed to have a Long-Las, especially if their ‘squad’ is supposed to be a sniper team and everyone else only has laspistols (there will be resentment amongst other thing). The same applies to Heavy Weapon Guys, think of the nonsense if the Regiment Heavy Weapon is Missile Launcher, only one guy gets the weapon that other Regiments get by default and everyone else is stuck with Heavy Stubbers.
Weapon Specialists and Heavies already get to choose their regiment's favoured weapon as part of their regular starting kit. Furthermore, the update is for "Additional Standard Kit Items". Since every single soldier gets one standard kit, unless otherwise specified (like the box of Screamers) every single soldier thus also gets everything that has been put on its list of contents.

So either is this a way to circumvent Specialty requirements for special weapons (closest to RAW), or this was meant to add additional weapon choices to the regiment's description so that the various classes have a bigger selection of special weapons to choose from (would make more sense imho, might be what was intended). Either way, some clarification would be in order. Let's see what update #4 brings.


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#8 Cifer

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:56 AM

Actually, I find all three interpretations (get a second favored weapon slot/get one weapon per squad/get one weapon per trooper) somewhat believable.

A second favored weapon would represent regiments with a larger variety of weapons.

Getting the weapon per trooper may be useful to those regiments that need a specific weapon for their job. Note that a massive chunk of ressources are sunk into this: The usual favored weapon bonus becomes useless because you'll never roll logistics for the weapon. 10 (or 15) points of your regiment bonus kit are sunk into the weapon. And everyone except for the gunner and specialist will likely have to spend some XP for weapon training. This way, you could for example create a regiment of Highborn entirely outfitted with bolter weaponry.

Getting one weapon for the squad… I don't know. That would be spending regiment points for stuff only a single person uses and that isn't really used by anyone else (unlike for example the medkit which is generally used on everyone sooner or later). If just one guy wants a Heavy Bolter, that's what taking the Heavy Gunner is for.



#9 KommissarK

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:14 AM

Andor said:

My reading of that rules was the same as yours, you are paying to add to the list of favored weapons, not to actually issue them.

Upon further reading, I agree with this. It lacks the "as standard kit" terminology that other items have, nor does it posses the needed "for the squad" terminology it would need.

If this is what it is intended to be though, its still a bit expensive. I would reduce both costs by 5.

It is however, a great way to bypass the weapon specialist sniper, but the party wants favoured weapon melta.



#10 Lynata

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:15 AM

KommissarK said:

It lacks the "as standard kit" terminology that other items have
Except for the Knife. ;)


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#11 HTMC

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:29 AM

Andor said:

My reading of that rules was the same as yours, you are paying to add to the list of favored weapons, not to actually issue them.

Just want to chime in that that was my reading as well.



#12 MILLANDSON

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:50 AM

Hiro Protagonist said:

That would be reasonable, Santiago, but where in the rules is that specified? In the Test Regiments I've seen on the board, I've seen some limit this to a single Squaddie, and others are more than happy to add it to everyone. It could be I missed something, I will admit, but again, as written in the updates, its not clear…. Any direction you can point me in is appreciated.

It was stated by the FFG writer/freelancer that suggested adding this rule, and so is on the forum where he originally suggested it.


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Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#13 Hiro Protagonist

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:46 PM

Well then, I stand illuminated, and happy to know my interpretation seems to be correct. Thank you MILLANDSON. Why am I not surprised at all that H.B.M.C. came up with this?  

Regardless, I still think official clarification is in order, but we'll see what happens….

 

 

 






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