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Declaring attackers


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#1 tibs3688

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:28 AM

I am fairly sure of the answer to this question, but I am posting here because the other party involved is still not convinced.  Last night we had a game going between me and my two friends who we'll just call John and Jane.  Jane had acted first and knelt most of her board.  John was up next and decided to declare a power challenge against Jane since most of her board was knelt.  He knelt Robert Baratheon (Core) and said that he would "do a power challenge" against Jane.

At this point I said that I needed to look at something in the rule book.  As soon as I said this John said "unless there is some kind of effect that's going to happen."  When I declared my intention to redirect his power challenge towards me with the crown regent title (so that fat bob would not claim 2 power) he attempted to "un-declare" the challenge and argued that it was legal for him to "re-declare" his attackers because of his "unless" statement; his intention obviously being to attack with more characters so that he could now win the challenge against my board.  I vehemently disagreed and Jane agreed that John's actions were not legal, but he persisted.  What should happen here?



#2 Khudzlin

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:42 AM

For you to redirect with the Crown Regent, John must already have declared his challenge type and attackers. At that point, he is not allowed to change his mind and next time, he should anticipate the possibility of Crown Regent and choose his attackers accordingly.



#3 ktom

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:31 PM

Ultimately, this is a question of sportsmanship, not a question of game rules.

On the one hand, "John" knows what Crown Regent does and knows you have it. This isn't like Chess where, until your finger comes off the piece, you can take the move back. The fact that he didn't try to hedge the challenge until after you announced your intention to verify how a card worked in the rules really does sound like a last-ditch effort to undo a mistake.

On the other hand, if it's a friendly game, you may allow a certain amount of "take back" - especially as people are learning the game.

 

From a strict rules point of view, his announcement of "I declare a power challenge against 'Jane' with Robert Baratheon as my only attacker" is a done deal. It's your responsibility to anticipate the effects that may happen. Crown Regent can't be used until all attackers are declared, so the attacker doesn't get the opportunity to declare more attackers if he's caught in the redirect. Strictly speaking, you cannot reserve the right to declare more attackers by saying "unless there are some effects that can be played that I'm not thinking about."

Of course, people make honest mistakes while they are learning the game, so there is some sportsmanship involved in letting someone mitigate a mistake. Of course, there is some sportsmanship in determining whether or not the mistake was honest. (To me, though, it doesn't sound like "John's" mistake was honest; it sounds like his statement was really "oh crap, I forgot Crown Regent; how can I make it sound like I didn't make the mistake and still win the game right now?")

 

All of that is a very long way of saying that the rules don't allow the attacker any way to declare more attackers after the Crown Regent is used. And there is nothing in the rules that says the Crown Regent must state his intention to use the redirect before attackers are declared (exactly the opposite, in fact). "John," having completely called his attack, was in the wrong on this one. Of course, that doesn't stop the other players from letting it slide as a learning experience if they so choose. (Although, there is certainly no obligation to do so in this situation.)



#4 tibs3688

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:00 PM

Thanks for the answers guys.  Yeah there was a fair amount of "take backs" while we were all still learning the game, but it's been about a month now and we're mostly aware of the in's and out's.  John was more than aware of the crown regent title and its effects, which is why me and Jane were unwilling to accept his re-declaration attempt.  Hopefully this will clear things up for him.



#5 Bomb

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:26 AM

If you want to keep your game flexible, allow someone to "pretend" to declare attackers/defenders in a challenge type by kneeling them and allowing them to analyze what they are doing while kneeling and unkneeling characters.  Their actions are a done deal upon saying "done" or "I'm doing X". 

Nothing is worse than an opponent not noticing something that's on the board that would have affected their decision after they already committed to a decision.






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