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Qarth + The Only Game That Matters


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#1 texhnolyzed

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

Hello !

Today during a game we had the following situation with Qarth and The only game that matters.

 

Qarth : Challenges: Kneel Qarth to choose 1 Dragon character you control. For the duration of the phase, that character gains an Intrigue icon and Deadly.

The only game that matters : Any Phase: Until the end of the challenge, participating characters without an [Intrigue] icon do not count their STR.

 

My Lannister opponent declared a Power challenge with a character, and I declared defenders with a dragon.

Then he played The only game that matters, to keep my dragon from contributing strength during the challenge because my dragon did not have an Intrigue icon, and then I used the ability on Qarth to give an Intrigue icon to my dragon so he could still contribute strength.

 

Is it right or did we make a mistake ?



#2 J_Roel

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 06:47 PM

texhnolyzed said:

The only game that matters : Any Phase: Until the end of the challenge, participating characters without an [Intrigue] icon do not count their STR.

 

Your interpretation was correct, as the strength of the dragon was not reduced by the event card, it was simply being ignored by it because the dragon didn't have an intrigue icon. As soon as it had an intrigue icon, it was no longer being ignored, so it's strength could be counted again. Had the event card said "participating characters without an intrigue icon have their strength reduced to zero for the duration of the challenge", then giving it an icon after the fact would not bring it's strength back up.


"...and Balerion... his fire was as black as his scales, his wings so vast that whole towns were swallowed up in their shadow when he passed over head."


#3 ktom

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:38 AM

J_Roel said:

Had the event card said "participating characters without an intrigue icon have their strength reduced to zero for the duration of the challenge", then giving it an icon after the fact would not bring it's strength back up.
Not necessarily. It would depend on the exact wording of the effect. The way you have worded this hypothetical (as an un-targeted, constant effect with a condition) the "reduced to 0" would not be applied to characters that gained an intrigue icon before the end of the challenge.

The thing to remember is that a character's STR toward the challenge outcome is only counted at challenge resolution. So "The Only Game that Matters" really only has a practical effect when the challenge resolves - meaning that the icon status of the character when the challenge resolves, not when the event is played, is what matters.



#4 J_Roel

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:44 AM

ktom said:

J_Roel said:

Had the event card said "participating characters without an intrigue icon have their strength reduced to zero for the duration of the challenge", then giving it an icon after the fact would not bring it's strength back up.

Not necessarily. It would depend on the exact wording of the effect. The way you have worded this hypothetical (as an un-targeted, constant effect with a condition) the "reduced to 0" would not be applied to characters that gained an intrigue icon before the end of the challenge.

 

My hypothetical event card would have to resolve before Qarth could be knelt, so the strength of the dragon would be reduced to 0. Maybe I'm missing something in the timing, but why would Qarth then let the dragon add his strength back before the event's timed effect allowed?


"...and Balerion... his fire was as black as his scales, his wings so vast that whole towns were swallowed up in their shadow when he passed over head."


#5 ktom

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:08 AM

J_Roel said:

My hypothetical event card would have to resolve before Qarth could be knelt, so the strength of the dragon would be reduced to 0. Maybe I'm missing something in the timing, but why would Qarth then let the dragon add his strength back before the event's timed effect allowed?

Because as worded, the "participating characters" part of your hypothetical effect is a condition for the application of the modifier (ie, "while this character does not have an intrigue icon"). To do what you are suggesting, you would have to reword your hypothetical effect to choose target characters and make it a condition on the target, not a condition on the application of the modifier - eg, "Choose all participating characters without an intrigue icon, those characters STR is reduced to 0 until the end of the challenge." 

 

 Effectively, general modifiers cannot be locked in based upon characteristics at a specific point in time. Targeted ones can.



#6 dcdennis

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:14 PM

 ooo debating imaginary cards. this thread delivers. (seriously).



#7 J_Roel

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:57 PM

 Hmm, I guess I didn't word it correctly to get the effect that I intended, as I was imagining a burn-type event card that would actually reduce the strength - as Forever Burning does, for example - but with the play restriction that the character doesn't have an intrigue icon and is participating in the challenge. In this case, adding the icon after the burn had already happened wouldn't give him his strength back.


"...and Balerion... his fire was as black as his scales, his wings so vast that whole towns were swallowed up in their shadow when he passed over head."


#8 ktom

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:09 AM

J_Roel said:

Hmm, I guess I didn't word it correctly to get the effect that I intended, as I was imagining a burn-type event card that would actually reduce the strength - as Forever Burning does, for example - but with the play restriction that the character doesn't have an intrigue icon and is participating in the challenge. In this case, adding the icon after the burn had already happened wouldn't give him his strength back.
Right. The difference is that the character must be targeted (as Forever Burning does) to lock the modifier into the character regardless of changes in characteristics, as opposed to locking the modifier into the characteristics themselves.






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