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#1 DarkWinds

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:29 AM

It's my understanding that warp capable voidships need navigators to steer them through the warp safely. These navigators are a special breed of mutant (as portrayed in Rogue Trader) but presumably, just because of demand, they must crop up everywhere. However in the Black Crusade the fact that there is a Navigate (Warp) skill seems to suggest that anyone can potentially learn how to navigate a ship safely through the warp… a skill that can be learned at any time. This runs contrary to what I understood was the case at least, does this mean that there are other ways to navigate a voidship through the warp, such as using technology, without the need of a cyclopic mutant?

 

DW



#2 Reverend mort

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 05:04 AM

SORCERY!

Basically, once you move away from the dogma of the Imperium, alternatives to Navigators become available. That said, having the skill not, necessarily, mean having the means.

However, yes, there exists technology that allows you to do safe warp jumps, though it's often less safe or simply less capable than navigators. That exists even in Rogue Trader, though the Navigator houses do their outmost to keep it out of people's hands.



#3 Uncle Screwtape

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 05:08 AM

  Well Navigators may the only sanctioned means of warp travel, there are alternatives if you don't mind dabbling in the heretical. In Hostile Acquisitions (Pg 66), there's a device known as a Prognosticator which allows for non-navigators to steer a ship through the immaterium. However, these devices are forbidden and the Nobilite would certainly take quick action against any captains foolish enough to flaunt their use of this maltek. Black Crusade's Navigate (warp) skill doesn't represent conventional warp travel, which uses the holy light of Terra, but rather a series of blasphemous rituals and incantations sure to drive any loyal servant of the Emperor mad. So yes, there are other means of warp navigation, but they are all incredibly rare, undeniably heretical, or both.

 

Edit: Oops, looks like I just double answered. Sorry 



#4 DarkWinds

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

Thanks for steering this former Imperial slave down the dark path of Chaotic righteousness ;) clearly living under the tyrannical Imperial regime kept certain truths hidden from me!

 

DW



#5 TheHeavenlyLily

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:06 PM

 There are a few books in which Chaos Marines steer the ships but only the most advanced (dedicated to a specific god can). The former Night Lord in the new series, the Sorcerer in 'Blood Gorgons'. But were they can they have their own Navigator bloodlines or steal them if possible. But were as Rogue Trader is about all of that, Black Crusade is more concerned with the path to ultimate power!



#6 DarkWinds

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:13 PM

Hehe, ultimate power is good, I just tend to think that the path to power would be easier to tread with the ability to scourge entire continents in a single broadside, or at least raid enemy outposts and have somewhere to 'stash your swag' as it were. But maybe (and I think this is what your driving at) the intricacies such as who navigates etc aren't as important to BC characters, just so long as they get where their going and its assumed they have the crew they need if they're using a voidship. I could work with that. Though for my own games I'd still be very tempted to combine RT's rules with BC to give the game a more piratical twist. Though that said the players I'm going to DM for are more interested in setting up a cult in the Calixis sector, heh typical, wonder if its worth getting some more DH books instead, Radicals Handbook maybe (I always fancied running a Radical Inquisitor but they preferred Puritan.. yawn).

 

DW



#7 signoftheserpent

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:46 PM

There are heretic navigators. Read Soul Hunter for an example. Just as there is a Dark Mechanicus there are Navigators that serve heretic causes, in this case navigate the Night Lord voidships through the warp. I think FFG missed a trick by not including them in the book. Maybe they will in Tome of Fate (if and when that ever gets released).



#8 TheHeavenlyLily

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:30 AM

 More piratical leanings? Hostile Acquisitions?



#9 DarkWinds

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:11 AM

Chaos Pirates, slavers, raiders. Infinitely more horrible than anything a mere Rogue Trader could come up with.

 

DW



#10 signoftheserpent

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:48 PM

TheHeavenlyLily said:

 More piratical leanings? Hostile Acquisitions?

that book has a lot that could be used for BC but the writers chose not to bother. It's a real shame.



#11 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:31 AM

signoftheserpent said:

that book has a lot that could be used for BC but the writers chose not to bother. It's a real shame.

 

I'd hardly call it "choosing not to bother"… Work on Black Crusade hadn't even begun when Hostile Acquisitions was in development. We couldn't choose to tie the book into Black Crusade because Black Crusade didn't exist at that point.


Writing Credits for Fantasy Flight Games: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet Koronus, Hostile Acquisitions, Black Crusade Core Rulebook, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War, The Navis Primer,Ark of Lost Souls, and Hammer of the Emperor

I no longer write for, or am employed by, Fantasy Flight Games in any fashion. All of my comments are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of any employer, past, present, or future.

#12 Badwall235

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:13 PM

 Yes the Sorcerer's in Black Crusade took over the Navigators spot since they have already looked upon the eye of terror.

Other xenos creature have adapted or evolved to see the edies and tides of warp space.  In thexenod manual of dark heresy and rogue trader talk of these warp entities.

 

So do some digging you find some really cool stuff about this subject.  Of course there are the exterminatus ships that are unmanned kill sats made in the dark age of 40 k by the mechanicus so what navigates them through the Warp.



#13 PnPgamer

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:35 PM

I would assume that these devices are only "heretical" becouse the navigator houses don't want to be labeled useless, and thus a mere mutants, and thus the enemies of the imperium. :)



#14 DarkWinds

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 04:22 AM

I just find it cool that Navigating is something that can be learned and doesn't solely rely on mutant birthrates, as those damned Imperials might have me believe  It does seem right that Chaos worshippers and psykers/sorcerers should find this a potential ability. I wonder though, is there any danger of them losing their eyes?

 

DW



#15 ShadowRay

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 06:44 AM

From THE NAVIGATOR HOUSES section on page 313.

"Renegades dedicated to the Ruinous Powers utilise both rogue
Navigators and sorcerers with analogous powers to steer their
vessels through the shifting tides of the Empyrean, steering not
by the sickly illumination cast by the Astronomican, but by other,
more powerful beacons only they can look upon."


As for why rogue navigators aren't included in the book, it may be because of their powers, which are very much unique, and BC is a system where everyone can become anything (not really true but close).
When people decide that a little diversity and special archeotype traits/talents won't destroy any balance, meaby we'll see a navigator.



#16 DarkWinds

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 06:47 PM

Thanks ShadowRay!

 

DW



#17 ShadowRay

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:43 PM

You're welcome.

And I really wish there were more career specific talents in BC (heretek has a lot of them, and some enemies have interesting abilities as well).



#18 van Riebeeck

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

The Navis Primer describes a sorcerous Warp Guide on page 118. This sorcerer uses sacrifice to gain the aid of the denizens of the Warp to guide his ship through the flows and eddies of the Immaterium, and can even improve that ability to quite serious levels by  doing more sacrifices to the Dark gods.  Practically, this means they make a sacrifice and can then act like 1D10+10 days as Navigators, substituting their Forbidden Lore (Warp) for Navigation (Warp). To improve on their skills, every other sacrifice they make increases their tests by +5 up to +30. Of course, in RT this goes hand in hand with 1 corruption and 1 insanity, but I do not think this would bother those who have foresaken the Imperium.

 

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primaris, Heart of the Void



#19 Darklordofbunnies

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:34 AM

You could always just roll a navigator from RT and drop him in BC, it's what I currently play and there isn't much difference once you convert the stats.






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