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A proposed solution to abhuman debate


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#1 Corrinmana

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:39 PM

So, there is a lot of rabble rabble about ratlings being boss snipers and non-abhuman friendly players not wanting to have to be a ratling to be a sniper. While the easy solution to this is play a ratling and call it a human, people have brought up good points that "house rule it" is not the point of a beta test. Someone else also made the point of "not all ratlings would be snipers."

In Deathwatch, everyone has a choice of race in the form of chapter. I feel the same system could work here. Make abhumans a template applied to the characters rather than a class choice. Much like some chapters have restricted specializations, so could the abhumans. I get this a bit of a major change but I thick this is a working compromise.



#2 HTMC

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:21 PM

That's a really big change. I'm also a bit leery of it just because the vast majority of PCs are going to normal humans, so adding an extra step of bonuses/characteristic modifiers/etc to character creation just adds more work that's identical for 90+% of the players (or whatever high percentage, obviously there's not way to know real numbers). It makes sense for Deathwatch because the SM are all coming from very different backgrounds, but again OW is supposed to be different in that the party is from the same Regiment and thus subject to the same background to a large degree. I think adding in race would just make things more complex for very little actual gain.



#3 Andor

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:46 PM

I'll second what HTMC said. Ogryn is particular are so limited that it's hard to imagine what other speciality they might have. Medic? Commisar? No.

As for ratlings they have the most generous advancement options in the entire game. Limited, they ain't.

Being a human sniper isn't that hard honestly, people just have ratling spotter envy.



#4 DJSunhammer

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:53 AM

Andor said:

 

I'll second what HTMC said. Ogryn is particular are so limited that it's hard to imagine what other speciality they might have. Medic? Commisar? No.

As for ratlings they have the most generous advancement options in the entire game. Limited, they ain't.

Being a human sniper isn't that hard honestly, people just have ratling spotter envy.

 

 

None. The Ogryn have one role, and that is to kill something until it is dead. They don't need an additional specialty and forcing them into one would be contradictory to their nature and their fluff.



#5 Darklordofbunnies

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:49 AM

It's mostly for appearance's sake that people want this and I'm opposed to it on the basis of making a playable game.The rules seems wonky and don't jive with what most people understand the 40k universe should work, but they are fluff consistent (every Ratling ever mentioned in the fluff is, in fact, a sniper or cook). Allowing people to build Ratling Comissars or Ogryn Storm Troopers sounds hilarious and awesome but it isn't good for game balance. Keep the abhumans as specialists, it doesn't make sense but it makes for a simpler game.



#6 MILLANDSON

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:00 AM

There isn't a chance in hell of that happening. Not only would it go against all the fluff we have on Ratlings and Ogryns (that they are used for very specific purposes in the Imperial Guard), it'd also result in an entire rewrite of the character creation system, as you'd have to grade the amount of XP you get to your race, and then have to proceed with full internal playtesting of those rules (which takes months), and then you'd just have made a change that makes a few people happy, but most people just carry on being Ogryn "kill stuff lots" characters and Ratling snipers.

The beta isn't for huge changes/suggestions like this - it's for feedback on what is already written, and tweaks based on those rules. At this late stage, after 95% of the book is written, and it's gone through internal playtesting, etc, they aren't going to change most of a chapter of the book.


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#7 Corrinmana

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:04 AM

I agree that its a big change. I get that. To the people talking about ratling commisars, READ THE WHOLE POST.



#8 Morangias

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:20 AM

The only complaint this solves is the one with Ratlings being better snipers than Weapon Specialists. Rewriting the whole character creation process to address such a fringe issue is… really not how game design works.


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#9 KommissarK

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:30 AM

The problem is that the premise of this post is incorrect. While yes, Ratlings do make excellent snipers, there isn't much that keeps a Weapon Specialist from being one either.

Aptitudes, check. Both the Weapon Specialist/Ratling have what is needed.

Racial Bonuses: While the Ratling's smaller size aids in not being detected, it also makes them significantly more fragile. The Weapon Specialist is able to remain quite a bit more survivable.

Skills/Talents: Minimal differences; a Weapon Specialist has all the needed aptitudes to get the skills and talents a Ratling has using his 300 xp extra.

Gear: Only major item is a chameoline cloak. Which is useful, but the Ratling needs for survivability. GM's with even a bit of common sense will realize that a scarce weapon (e.g. a sniper rifle/long las) is certainly an acceptable piece of starting gear for a Weapon Specialist, and should allow them to take it (given they otherwise could take up to a very rare regimental favorite basic weapon). Also, if the regimental favorite is a sniper rifle/long las, well, problem solved.

Comrade Advances: trickier, but comparable. The ability to use the comrade to aim, while useful, only adds a minor bit of superiority to a sniper's economy of actions. They already can aim themselves.

The ability to make the shot unavoidable is probably the most powerful ability, but I would argue it contends with the ability to make the weapon pinning. An unavoidable attack is plainly damage; something everyone deals. Pinning on the other hand messes with the targets economy of actions. It keeps the party safe while forcing them to keep their heads down.

Therefore, Sniper != Ratling in OW.



#10 Grubisha

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:23 AM

Leave Ratling as it is and add Spotter option to Weapon Specialist Comrade.



#11 Lynata

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:58 AM

Grubisha said:

Leave Ratling as it is and add Spotter option to Weapon Specialist Comrade.

This so much. I think the Ratling having an easier time "advancing" as a sniper is fitting, and I also agree that there's little point in separating (sub)race from role in Only War. The Spotter, however, is the one and only thing I would have wished to have as a Weapon Specialist.

Poor Dasha might still be alive if she hadn't wasted 4 out of 5 shots/turns due to the enemy being exceptionally good at barely dodging multi-DoS sniping attempts. Damn these dice!


current 40k RPG character: Captain Elias, Celestial Lions Tactical Marine   
previous characters: Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader frigate Artemisia)




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