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I'm half way into a Campaign and the only real question we have had is about splig and blast.


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#1 hoduken

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:12 AM

What happens if someone uses a weapon with blast and it hits Splig and another target? How does Splig's "not me!" ability work?

I'm half way into a Campaign and this has been an issue brought up by the players.

To be more specific. his ability states "each time splig is attacked before the dice are rolled, test his X, if he passes, a monster adjacent to him becomes the target of the attack. Range and line of sight are still measured to splig's space."

What happens if he is hit by a blast but isn't the target of the attack? Or is hit by the blast, and he is the target of the attack? Can he still use the ability? if so what happens if he changes the target to a monster that is already being hit by the blast attack?

 

So lets say you have.

A_G
B_S G
C_G
_1 2 3

Splig being on b2. and goblins on a2, c2, and b3.

Someone drops a blast on c2. Hitting splig, the goblin on b3, and of course the target on c2. Can splig use his ability to redirect the damage? if so, how does this resolve?

 



#2 Malicain

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:29 PM

This is not official. The way I would play it is, first determine the target of the attack. If the target is Splig then the attack is diverted to the adjacent minion on a successful test by Splig. That minion becomes the new target and if Splig is adjacent, (which he would be or is ability would not trigger) then Splig would take damage from the blast. If the minion is the target and Splig is adjacent then he would again get hit by the blast.


The short of it in my opinion is that they only way for Splig's "Not Me" ability to trigger is if he is the Target of the attack, where as if he is in the blast radius he is not the target and could not use "Not me".


Again this is my opinion only.


So blast may be a good way to deal with Mister Splig.
 



#3 radiskull

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:32 PM

 It's not just your opinion, it's the application of the rules as written.  Not Me is clearly written to work only if Splig is the target.  Squares in the periphery of a blast attack are NOT targeted.



#4 Lupin89

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:27 PM

this is my way of thinking how it should work (not played that quest)

my example:

A x-G-x-x

B x-S-S-x

C x-S-S-x

D x-x-G-x

   1-2-3-4

x= empty place  =4xS are Splig G=goblins

if you got least 2 goblins opposite side of Splig you should be able to use rule so you never take hit from blast effects from any targeted spot of Splig.

As for the your other question you already got answer and i agree with them that your not allowed to use ''Not Me'' if Splig isn't the main target

''Not Me'' looks like body replacement technique. ''With this technique, one replaces their own body with a block of wood or some other object(goblin next to you), the moment an attack lands''

Splig the fat goblin ninja



#5 hoduken

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 04:53 PM

radiskull said:

 It's not just your opinion, it's the application of the rules as written.  Not Me is clearly written to work only if Splig is the target.  Squares in the periphery of a blast attack are NOT targeted.

 

Thanks for the quick replies guys. However, question.

"each time splig is attacked before the dice are rolled, test his X, if he passes, a monster adjacent to him becomes the target of the attack. Range and line of sight are still measured to splig's space."

This is the exact wording on his ability. No where does it say he must be the target to use his ability. Would you kindly reference where you are getting the information that it only triggers when he is the target?



#6 radiskull

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:52 PM

 

 

Sorry, I am misremembering a few things from the BGG thread. In that thread, the example was using the weapon that gains blast on a surge, which obviously couldn't trigger Splig's ability, as he wouldn't be affected before dice are rolled.

However, if the attack had Blast before dice were rolled, I agree the rules are not clear.



#7 jjcole

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:01 AM

hoduken said:

radiskull said:

 

 It's not just your opinion, it's the application of the rules as written.  Not Me is clearly written to work only if Splig is the target.  Squares in the periphery of a blast attack are NOT targeted.

 

 

 

Thanks for the quick replies guys. However, question.

"each time splig is attacked before the dice are rolled, test his X, if he passes, a monster adjacent to him becomes the target of the attack. Range and line of sight are still measured to splig's space."

This is the exact wording on his ability. No where does it say he must be the target to use his ability. Would you kindly reference where you are getting the information that it only triggers when he is the target?

My guess is that being affected by Blast is more of an effect which inflicts damage, and not actually being attacked. The weapon is attacking a particular figure and causing an explosion which is also inflicting damage upon nearby figures as a side effect, but not as an extra attack.



#8 radiskull

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:20 AM

 The rules say that the peripheral characters are "also affected by the attack", so perhaps that means they're "attacked", perhaps not.



#9 lorddax

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:03 PM

 Based on the rules of combat:

 

1. DEClARE WEAPON AND TARgET
The attacking player declares which space his figure is attacking. The
target space must contain one enemy figure as the target of the attack.
When heroes attack large monsters (monster figures that occupy more
than one space), it is important for the player to declare which specific
space he is targeting because of attacks with the Blast keyword. A figure
may only target a space in his line of sight (see “Line of Sight” on page
12). A figure making a Melee attack can only target an adjacent space.
A figure making a Ranged attack may target any figure in its line of sight
(including adjacent spaces).

 

I would say that if Squig is in the targeted space (the reference point of Blast) then he can use "Not Me" if he is not in the targeted space, then he would not.



#10 Steve-O

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 03:15 PM

lorddax said:

1. DEClARE WEAPON AND TARgET
The attacking player declares which space his figure is attacking. The
target space must contain one enemy figure as the target of the attack.
When heroes attack large monsters (monster figures that occupy more
than one space), it is important for the player to declare which specific
space he is targeting because of attacks with the Blast keyword. A figure
may only target a space in his line of sight (see “Line of Sight” on page
12). A figure making a Melee attack can only target an adjacent space.
A figure making a Ranged attack may target any figure in its line of sight
(including adjacent spaces).

I would say that if Squig is in the targeted space (the reference point of Blast) then he can use "Not Me" if he is not in the targeted space, then he would not.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

It would seem that attacks in 2e target a space AND a figure.  The figure must be in the space, naturally.  Additional figures struck by things like Blast are affected by the attack, but not "targeted."  That could have some interesting side-effects, this business with Splig being just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, but your logic does make sense to me. =)

That also implies that friendly figures can still be caught in AoE attacks (which is fine by me.)  The rules for attacking require you to "target" an enemy figure, but if collateral damage isn't "targeted," it ought to affect any figures therein.



#11 lorddax

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:50 PM

Steve-O said:

lorddax said:

 

1. DEClARE WEAPON AND TARgET
The attacking player declares which space his figure is attacking. The
target space must contain one enemy figure as the target of the attack.
When heroes attack large monsters (monster figures that occupy more
than one space), it is important for the player to declare which specific
space he is targeting because of attacks with the Blast keyword. A figure
may only target a space in his line of sight (see “Line of Sight” on page
12). A figure making a Melee attack can only target an adjacent space.
A figure making a Ranged attack may target any figure in its line of sight
(including adjacent spaces).

I would say that if Squig is in the targeted space (the reference point of Blast) then he can use "Not Me" if he is not in the targeted space, then he would not.

 

 

I'll buy that for a dollar.

It would seem that attacks in 2e target a space AND a figure.  The figure must be in the space, naturally.  Additional figures struck by things like Blast are affected by the attack, but not "targeted."  That could have some interesting side-effects, this business with Splig being just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, but your logic does make sense to me. =)

That also implies that friendly figures can still be caught in AoE attacks (which is fine by me.)  The rules for attacking require you to "target" an enemy figure, but if collateral damage isn't "targeted," it ought to affect any figures therein.

Due to the wording of the large fig part I'd go so far as to say that attacks ONLY target a square (declares which space his figure is attacking, target space) but that in most cases a square without afig are illegal targets (must contain an enemy) and the opposing fig is an inheirited target via the space (target of the attack). That sound about right and least possible loopholey?



#12 Sausageman

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:36 AM

lorddax said:

Due to the wording of the large fig part I'd go so far as to say that attacks ONLY target a square (declares which space his figure is attacking, target space) but that in most cases a square without afig are illegal targets (must contain an enemy) and the opposing fig is an inheirited target via the space (target of the attack). That sound about right and least possible loopholey?

Shame.  There's always a reason that you might want to target an empty square.  And lets be far, that shouldn't be too hard to do either…



#13 lorddax

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:50 AM

Sausageman said:

lorddax said:

Due to the wording of the large fig part I'd go so far as to say that attacks ONLY target a square (declares which space his figure is attacking, target space) but that in most cases a square without afig are illegal targets (must contain an enemy) and the opposing fig is an inheirited target via the space (target of the attack). That sound about right and least possible loopholey?

 

Shame.  There's always a reason that you might want to target an empty square.  And lets be far, that shouldn't be too hard to do either…

Well I'd say that you can target an empty square with anything besides a weapon, as the rules for combat say to declare weapon and space. So if you wanted to cast a spell on an empty space it should be doable, but swinging at the air to attempt to get surge procs for stunning those around, well that WONT work, as it would default to being equal to rolling a blue X and it would look stupid as hell on the battlefield lol

TASTE MY MIGHTY AXE! 

OWW! I wish you hadn't swung at that empty space and caused me to drop my weapon at that non threatening attack!



#14 hoduken

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:41 PM

lorddax said:

I would say that if Squig is in the targeted space (the reference point of Blast) then he can use "Not Me" if he is not in the targeted space, then he would not.

 

So if this is in fact the case. What happens when Splig is being targeted and then redirects damage to a model that is already taking damage from the blast? Are they hit twice? How does this resolve?



#15 Steve-O

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:48 PM

hoduken said:

 

So if this is in fact the case. What happens when Splig is being targeted and then redirects damage to a model that is already taking damage from the blast? Are they hit twice? How does this resolve?

My understanding of the ability is that it transposes the attack from Splig's space to an adjacent one.  The attack is not duplicated, just "moved over" and the resolved as if the new space had always been the declared target.

So nobody gets hit twice, the target space just shifts over one.  Given the nature of Blast it is unlikely that Splig will be able to save himself with this ability even if it does trigger, although it might matter if he can shift it off a different monster that the OL wants to keep alive for some reason.



#16 CitanTim

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:31 AM

 It could also help in changing the target to a figure that has less adjacent figures, and thus reducing the effectiveness of the blast.



#17 Slinthas

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:44 PM

I disagree with most of the posters here. You cannot ever target a figure with an attack, you ONLY target spaces. Therefore whenever Splig would get DAMAGED, he is being attacked and can redirect it if he passes his check. 






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